[COLUG] web application development

[Patrick Blitz]

Am Sam, 2003-07-26 um 18.48 schrieb Tom Hanlon:
> I agree,
> 
> I have seen projects that where frankly a little too much for PHP. The 
> application was being ported to the web, it was a big app and perhaps 
> should not have been ported to the web. But the C coders and the OO 
> coders that were porting the project where frustrated with PHP. They 
> wanted OO stuff such as destructors, they wanted to access and write 
> variables that outlived the life of the request, they did not want to 
> write these variables to disk. Java would have given them access to 
> shared memory outside the scope of the request. Java would have given 
> them destructors. Also when an application is truly stretching the 
> utility of the http protocol I sometimes encourage developers to 
> consider using a java applet that runs in the browser to overcome some 
> of those issues. I know java applets did little more than crash 
> browsers for a few years but I think modern OS/browser combinations can 
> handle them.

windows OS's since 98se don't ship with any Java Virtual Machine any
more...
and 60% of most computer users are not really able to install anything
on any machine, so, how should they know how to install a JVM??
 
if you are talking about an application in an intranet, then that's not
a big deal.
But why use it as an applet then?
and if you want to use it on the web (which i assume you want) then you
seriously have to consider this.
most computers of friends i've been sitting at in the last months aren't
able to display something like http://go.icq.com anymore.

Patrick
> 
> Now the above project is an exception, much can be done with PHP. If 
> you look at the project and then look at the http protocol and the 
> tools available and say "this is ridiculously complicated" then 
> consider JAVA. If it seems like a web compatible application, where a 
> "resource" is requested and then a "different resource" is requested, 
> the connection between those resources is minor, and any problems of 
> concurrent users and various other state issues are relatively minor 
> then use PHP, and/or the scripting language of your choice.
> 
> CMS stuff, zope has a content management framework that might allow you 
> build your cms on zope's foundation.
> 
> A basic problem with web application development is that there are so 
> many ways to do things. This makes initial planning complicated. JAVA 
> imposes some order on that chaos. PHP, perl CGI, encourage the chaos 
> rather than discourage it. ZOPE is sort of a middle ground, it 
> discourages some chaos because it imposes some structure.
> 
> Tom
> 
> 
> On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 03:12 PM, rfunk at funknet.net wrote:
> 
> > Balint, Jess wrote:
> >> I think the reason you see PHP/Perl/Whatever in smaller shops is 
> >> because of
> >> their ability to create a small or medium web application very 
> >> quickly. Java
> >> & Struts on the other hand takes quite a bit of work and has a MUCH 
> >> more
> >> steep learning curve. It worthwile when large applications are being
> >> written. eg. in enterpise situations.
> >
> > That sounds about right to me.  For small projects, the Java
> > infrastructure is too much trouble to be worthwhile, while the others
> > make for quick development.  For large projects, Java's strengths come
> > out, while the other systems start to show their limits in various
> > ways -- some faster than others. In between it's a matter of
> > preference and judgement.
> >
> > Though I can't help noting that "enterprise" is one of those business
> > buzzwords that sends up red flags in some quarters. :-)
> >
> > -- 
> > ==============================| "A slice of life isn't the whole cake
> >  Rob Funk <rfunk at funknet.net> | One tooth will never make a full grin"
> >  http://www.funknet.net/rfunk |    -- Chris Mars, "Stuck in Rewind"
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