From tom at functionalmedia.com Tue Jun 1 01:00:42 2004 From: tom at functionalmedia.com (tom hanlon) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:33 2005 Subject: Redirecting access in Apache to https:// In-Reply-To: <000801c44367$10bc87e0$690aa8c0@alpha2.com> Message-ID: >>> >>> How about >>> >>> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/core.html#errordocument >>> >>> ErrorDocument 301 https://... >>> >> Sorry, that should be 403 not 301. >> >> > That looked interesting. The main problem I saw with trying something > like > that was any 403 would send you to that single page then. We actually > have a > couple of different pages where SSL would be required. > > Probably counts as abuse of of the ErrorDocument directive but I do see ways of making this work. ErrorDocument 403 https://example.com/phpredirector.php And then phpredirector should be able to grab the referrer from the request and that should be the page requested. phpredirector would rewrite that to make it https. Then phpredirector would send a Location header with the secure page. The browser may choke on two redirects, but I imagine it would work just fine. Of course mod_rewrite makes more sense is cleaner and the like. But hacking ErrorDocument to a script that redirects for you is certainly an option. Actually if the pages you are securing are php scripts or perl scripts for that matter a redirect from within those pages is possible. Sloppy maybe but possible just the same. From rfunk at funknet.net Tue Jun 1 01:24:27 2004 From: rfunk at funknet.net (Rob Funk) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:33 2005 Subject: OT: linksys wrt54g spamming stp message every two seconds In-Reply-To: <1086056231.1072.22.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> References: <1086056231.1072.22.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> Message-ID: <200406010124.27762.rfunk@funknet.net> Stephen J. Smith wrote: > I just upgraded the firmware of my Linksys WRT54G cable/dsl router to > 2.02.7. Now it is sending some kind of spanning tree protocol message > *every two seconds*. It didn't do this before the upgrade. Is this > perfectly reasonable behavior? Did you check the configuration? There's probably something you can turn off. > [sjs@cobra tmp]$ sudo tcpdump -r stp -s 9999 -x -c 3 > 21:29:09.826623 802.1d config 8000.00:0c:41:d2:9c:d6.8001 root > 8000.00:0c:41:d2:9c:d6 pathcost 0 age 0 max 20 hello 2 fdelay 0 4242 > 0300 0000 0000 8000 000c 41d2 9cd6 0000 0000 8000 000c 41d2 9cd6 8001 > 0000 1400 0200 0000 a5a5 a5a5 a5a5 a5a5 Wait, that's going out on the LAN (internal) ports?! That's really weird. Personally I'd upgrade that firmware away from Linksys. Since the WRT54G runs Linux, it's quite hackable, and there are a few third-party firmware projects. For example: http://www.sveasoft.com/forums.html -- ==============================| "A slice of life isn't the whole cake Rob Funk | One tooth will never make a full grin" http://www.funknet.net/rfunk | -- Chris Mars, "Stuck in Rewind" From sjs at khadrin.com Tue Jun 1 08:15:13 2004 From: sjs at khadrin.com (Stephen J. Smith) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:34 2005 Subject: OT: linksys wrt54g spamming stp message every two seconds In-Reply-To: <200406010124.27762.rfunk@funknet.net> References: <1086056231.1072.22.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> <200406010124.27762.rfunk@funknet.net> Message-ID: <1086092113.1072.38.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> On Tue, 2004-06-01 at 01:24, Rob Funk wrote: > Did you check the configuration? There's probably something you can turn > off. Yea. Even changed a few things I didn't think could possibly be related just to see. If there is a config option I couldn't find it. > Wait, that's going out on the LAN (internal) ports?! Yep. > Personally I'd upgrade that firmware away from Linksys. Since the WRT54G > runs Linux, it's quite hackable, and there are a few third-party firmware > projects. For example: > http://www.sveasoft.com/forums.html I was thinking about that. What the heck, I'll take the plunge. -- Stephen J. Smith | sjs@khadrin.com | http://khadrin.com/ From dreed at capital.edu Tue Jun 1 09:30:21 2004 From: dreed at capital.edu (Dave Reed) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:34 2005 Subject: OT: linksys wrt54g spamming stp message every two seconds In-Reply-To: <1086092113.1072.38.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> References: <1086056231.1072.22.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> <200406010124.27762.rfunk@funknet.net> <1086092113.1072.38.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> Message-ID: <200406010930.21375.dreed@capital.edu> On Tuesday 01 June 2004 08:15, Stephen J. Smith wrote: > On Tue, 2004-06-01 at 01:24, Rob Funk wrote: > > Did you check the configuration? There's probably something you can turn > > off. > > Yea. Even changed a few things I didn't think could possibly be related > just to see. If there is a config option I couldn't find it. > > > Wait, that's going out on the LAN (internal) ports?! > > Yep. > > > Personally I'd upgrade that firmware away from Linksys. Since the WRT54G > > runs Linux, it's quite hackable, and there are a few third-party firmware > > projects. For example: > > http://www.sveasoft.com/forums.html > > I was thinking about that. What the heck, I'll take the plunge. Please report back (at least to me if not the list). I've got the same router (never touched the firmware so it's got whatever it came with) but have been toying with using the sveasoft firmware since it supports QoS which I'd like to use with my voip service. I'm currently using a Coyote software router but this would probably reduce electricity usage. Thanks, Dave From sjs at khadrin.com Tue Jun 1 10:32:40 2004 From: sjs at khadrin.com (Stephen J. Smith) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:34 2005 Subject: OT linksys wrt54g third-party firmware In-Reply-To: <200406010930.21375.dreed@capital.edu> References: <1086056231.1072.22.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> <200406010124.27762.rfunk@funknet.net> <1086092113.1072.38.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> <200406010930.21375.dreed@capital.edu> Message-ID: <1086100360.3108.30.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> On Tue, 2004-06-01 at 09:30, Dave Reed wrote: > Please report back (at least to me if not the list). I've got the same > router (never touched the firmware so it's got whatever it came with) > but have been toying with using the sveasoft firmware since it > supports QoS which I'd like to use with my voip service. I'm currently > using a Coyote software router but this would probably reduce > electricity usage. Hi Dave. There are several third-party firmwares available for the Linksys wrt54g. A web page that catalogs several of them is http://www.linksysinfo.org/modules.php?name=Web_Links&l_op=viewlink&cid=2. I decided to go with firmware from wifibox's project, which is hosted on sourceforge at http://sourceforge.net/projects/wifi-box/. I installed his latest firmware (2.02.2.1pre) first, but it also had the stp message spamming problem. Now I am running version 2.00.8.1h of his firmware, and the stp problem is gone. Wifibox's firmware adds a reboot button to the admin interface, which is very handy. Now I can feel a little more confident that the wrt54g is really doing what I told it through the admin interface, just by pressing the reboot button. I also had to turn the transmit power up from 25% to 100% (another feature of the new firmware). I just couldn't resist! I haven't had a chance to measure the benefits (if any) of the increased power yet. ESR wrote a howto on these Linksys beasties that you might be interested in: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Linksys-Blue-Box-Router-HOWTO/index.html. Do you know if your router is version 2 or 1? I think it matters but I'm not sure. Mine is version 2. It says "WRT54G ver. 2" under model number on the bottom side of the case. As far as upgrading the firmware, I just used the web admin interface and it seemed to work fine. I have seen it recommended to use tftp instead. I think tftp used to be the _only_ way from Linux. That's about all I know. Good luck! -- Stephen J. Smith | sjs@khadrin.com | http://khadrin.com/ From rfunk at funknet.net Tue Jun 1 11:25:01 2004 From: rfunk at funknet.net (Rob Funk) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:34 2005 Subject: OT linksys wrt54g third-party firmware In-Reply-To: <1086100360.3108.30.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> References: <1086056231.1072.22.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> <200406010930.21375.dreed@capital.edu> <1086100360.3108.30.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> Message-ID: <200406011125.01333.rfunk@funknet.net> Stephen J. Smith wrote: > I decided to go with firmware from wifibox's project, which is hosted on > sourceforge at http://sourceforge.net/projects/wifi-box/. Last I heard the wifi-box developer had disappeared. I notice that nothing seems to have happened on that sourceforge project since February. Besides Sveasoft and Wifi-Box there's also OpenWRT: http://openwrt.ksilebo.net./ And Ewrt, a fork of the Sveasoft firmware: http://www.portless.net/ewrt/ Also, a way to get started playing with the box is the volatile-memory-only Batbox installation. It doesn't touch the firmware, but allows you to get a shell on the box to explore and change things. http://www.batbox.org/wrt54g-linux.html > I also had to turn the transmit power up from 25% to 100% (another > feature of the new firmware). I just couldn't resist! I haven't had a > chance to measure the benefits (if any) of the increased power yet. That's a very dangerous thing to do. People have burned out their WRT54G boxes going up to full power. There's a reason the default is not full power. You're probably safe going up a bit from the default, but I'd hold off from going all the way up. And don't forget that doubling the power only adds 3dB of signal, so you only added 6dB by quadrupling. You're better off getting a better antenna. (See the book "Wireless Hacks".) > ESR wrote a howto on these Linksys beasties that you might be interested > in: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Linksys-Blue-Box-Router-HOWTO/index.html. The original canonical source of info on these boxes is: http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/LinksysWrt54g > Do you know if your router is version 2 or 1? I think it matters but > I'm not sure. Actually there are three versions of the WRT54G, 1.0, 1.1, and 2. 1.0 has more lights than the others. 2 has a faster processor, more memory (I think) and a slightly rearranged interface naming scheme. Then there's the WRT54GS, which has a nonstandard higher-speed capability and more memory. -- ==============================| "A slice of life isn't the whole cake Rob Funk | One tooth will never make a full grin" http://www.funknet.net/rfunk | -- Chris Mars, "Stuck in Rewind" From sjs at khadrin.com Tue Jun 1 15:07:19 2004 From: sjs at khadrin.com (Stephen J. Smith) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:34 2005 Subject: OT linksys wrt54g third-party firmware In-Reply-To: <200406011125.01333.rfunk@funknet.net> References: <1086056231.1072.22.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> <200406010930.21375.dreed@capital.edu> <1086100360.3108.30.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> <200406011125.01333.rfunk@funknet.net> Message-ID: <1086116839.3108.51.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> On Tue, 2004-06-01 at 11:25, Rob Funk wrote: > Last I heard the wifi-box developer had disappeared. I notice that nothing > seems to have happened on that sourceforge project since February. Isn't that just the nature of open source though? He will probably be back when he finds the time or needs his router to do something different. All I really wanted mine to do was stop spamming stp messages. ;) > > I also had to turn the transmit power up from 25% to 100% > That's a very dangerous thing to do. People have burned out their WRT54G > boxes going up to full power. Ok, I turned it back down. =p > The original canonical source of info on these boxes is: > http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/LinksysWrt54g Cool, bookmark added! Actually the reason I upgraded the firmware on the router in the first place was to see if it would then be willing to talk to my scm2835w 802.11g wireless card which I have been trying to get working with fedora core 2 for a couple days now. Turns out there is a problem with my card: it stops working after it gets hot. If I let it cool for five minutes at room temperature it works for about 1 minute. If I let it cool for five minutes in the freezer it works for about 2.5 minutes. Not good either way! I wasted so much time messing with the configuration when it was a hardware problem the whole time. Grr. -- Stephen J. Smith | sjs@khadrin.com | http://khadrin.com/ From tom at functionalmedia.com Tue Jun 1 21:54:22 2004 From: tom at functionalmedia.com (tom hanlon) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:34 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Linux-friendly rural broadband in Central Ohio? In-Reply-To: <32bf93325a05.325a0532bf93@osu.edu> Message-ID: <778C3944-1DE6-11B2-96DA-00039317745E@functionalmedia.com> > Do you understand that you will have to drive 30 minutes for a > pizza or chinese food? > > You can see the stars better in the country, I saw the Aurora > Borealis three years ago in my yard out there. > > Yee Haw! > Actually I have seen the northern lights at least four separate times in the last few years. I guess we are at the tail end of a thirteen year peak of Aurora Borealis. Mostly we get the "red glow" down here in the south but once or twice it has been nice enough to get the "sheeting blue stuff" and some "shooting rays". Actually got good photos of one event. Usually one friend sees them and gets on the phone and spreads the word. About three years ago it was good enough that you would notice all the neighbors standing in their yards looking up. It would be nice to have stars, pizza, chinese food, fast internet, and northern lights. But alas some choices have to be made in life. hard choices at that. I usually drive into athens, 11 miles, and go to my office if I have to do anything serious online. Same goes for chinese food. My ridge top seems like it may have line of sight to some towers in athens ohio, 8 miles away straight line, so I always mean to explore my options but I never get around to it. Tom From robb at bossleyfamily.com Wed Jun 2 02:35:09 2004 From: robb at bossleyfamily.com (Robb Bossley) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:34 2005 Subject: Kernel bug?? Message-ID: <20040602063509.7fb4a94a.robb@bossleyfamily.com> I believe I may have located a kernel bug with 2.6.6, or at least a problem with a driver. This is just a snippet of what happens when I start up the compiled kernel. (The configuration is the same as was in 2.6.5, which works fine) hda: _NEC NR-7700A, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive hdc: ST320014A, ATA DISK drive hdc: IRQ probe failed (0xfffff7fa) hdc: IRQ probe failed (0xfffff7fa) hdc: IRQ probe failed (0xfffff7fa) ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7, 0x3f6 on irq 14 ide1 at 0x170-0x177, 0x376 on irq 15 hdc: max request size: 128KiB hdc: lost interrupt hdc: lost interrupt hdc: lost interrupt hdc: lost interrupt The messages do go on for a short while, setting up some other things in the kernel, but eventually come back to "hdc: lost interrupt", and then the whole thing just freezes - no progress. My questions are twofold. 1. How do I troubleshoot this problem so that I can give the most information to those working on the kernel or driver for the hard drive? I am not a programmer, though I understand a bit of code, but I would like to help them by giving as much information as possible. 2. Where would I send this information? Thanks. Robb From pat at linuxcolumbus.com Wed Jun 2 08:57:29 2004 From: pat at linuxcolumbus.com (pat@linuxcolumbus.com) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:34 2005 Subject: Kernel bug?? In-Reply-To: <20040602063509.7fb4a94a.robb@bossleyfamily.com> References: <20040602063509.7fb4a94a.robb@bossleyfamily.com> Message-ID: <20040602125729.GB13207@linuxcolumbus.com> On Wed, Jun 02, 2004 at 06:35:09AM +0000, Robb Bossley wrote: > I believe I may have located a kernel bug with 2.6.6, or at least a problem with a driver. This is just a snippet of what happens when I start up the compiled kernel. (The configuration is the same as was in 2.6.5, which works fine) > > hda: _NEC NR-7700A, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive > hdc: ST320014A, ATA DISK drive > hdc: IRQ probe failed (0xfffff7fa) > hdc: IRQ probe failed (0xfffff7fa) > hdc: IRQ probe failed (0xfffff7fa) > ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7, 0x3f6 on irq 14 > ide1 at 0x170-0x177, 0x376 on irq 15 > hdc: max request size: 128KiB > hdc: lost interrupt > hdc: lost interrupt > hdc: lost interrupt > hdc: lost interrupt > Google at http://www.google.com/linux for "lost interrupt". Pat From wings1446 at wowway.com Fri Jun 4 14:31:39 2004 From: wings1446 at wowway.com (wings1446) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:34 2005 Subject: Definitions Message-ID: Would anyone happen to know of a good definition web page for Linux, and possibly the Linux file system (both ext2 and ext3)? Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.colug.net/pipermail/colug/attachments/20040604/ca86d9b2/attachment.htm From chris.fuhrman at tfcci.com Sun Jun 6 11:47:21 2004 From: chris.fuhrman at tfcci.com (Chris Fuhrman) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:34 2005 Subject: Onstream DI-30 under kernel 2.6 Message-ID: Howdy, Just installed Fedora Core 2 yesterday and have found it to be an excellent operating system. My video card's hardware acceleration is now fully supported, lots of new goodies to be found, software runs quicker, and over-all the system feels a lot snappier. That said, I have one little caveat. I've got an Onstream DI-30 Tape backup drive that used to work flawlessly using the osst driver. Unfortunately, the osst driver relies a lot on the old ide-scsi driver which has been deprecated leaving me somewhat stuck. Soooo does anyone have any experience with getting their tape backup to work using the new 2.6 kernel? Thanks! -- Chris Fuhrman | Twenty First Century Communications chris.fuhrman@tfcci.com | Senior Software Engineer (W) 614-442-1215 x271 | (F) 614-442-5662 | PGP/GPG Public Key Available on Request From jep200404 at columbus.rr.com Sun Jun 6 15:51:55 2004 From: jep200404 at columbus.rr.com (Jim) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:34 2005 Subject: Empirical Experience: Good and Bad Electrolytic Capacitors Message-ID: <20040606155155.635d9afe.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> I'd heard of motherboards dying because of bad electrolytic capacitors (caps), that the bad caps had a bulged top, often showing signs of leakage. I just measured some caps salvaged from dead motherboards. Many of the caps were bad, with only a few percent to about twenty percent of their nominal value. A couple had half of their nominal value. All of the bad caps had bulged tops. All of the good caps had flat tops. ------------------------------------------------------------ If you have a dead motherboard with caps that have bulged caps, you _might_ be able to fix the motherboard by replacing the caps. Keep in mind that many of the caps, especially by the CPU, are special. They have very low resistance. Of course, there are many ways for a motherboard to die, so if you replace bulged caps on a dead motherboard, you might have good caps on a still dead motherboard. From rfunk at funknet.net Sun Jun 6 16:03:28 2004 From: rfunk at funknet.net (Rob Funk) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:34 2005 Subject: Empirical Experience: Good and Bad Electrolytic Capacitors In-Reply-To: <20040606155155.635d9afe.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> References: <20040606155155.635d9afe.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> Message-ID: <200406061603.28306.rfunk@funknet.net> Jim wrote: > I just measured some caps salvaged from dead motherboards. > Many of the caps were bad, with only a few percent to about > twenty percent of their nominal value. A couple had half > of their nominal value. All of the bad caps had bulged > tops. All of the good caps had flat tops. Any idea how they get bulged? -- ==============================| "A slice of life isn't the whole cake Rob Funk | One tooth will never make a full grin" http://www.funknet.net/rfunk | -- Chris Mars, "Stuck in Rewind" From jep200404 at columbus.rr.com Sun Jun 6 16:32:23 2004 From: jep200404 at columbus.rr.com (Jim) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:34 2005 Subject: Theoretical Whizzing: Good and Bad Electrolytic Capacitors In-Reply-To: <200406061603.28306.rfunk@funknet.net> References: <20040606155155.635d9afe.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> <200406061603.28306.rfunk@funknet.net> Message-ID: <20040606163223.025badcf.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> Rob Funk asked about bad electrolytic capacitors: > Any idea how they get bulged? I first heard of this two or three years ago from an EE friend. He said that a bad batch of electrolytic had been used for some capacitors. I think the problem is too far widespread to blame on one batch of juice, although a bad recipe could cause problems. I don't have any solid understanding of the failure mechanism. Here are some articles that seem plausible to me: http://www.niccomp.com/taiwanlowesr.htm http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_30328/article.html So it seems my EE friend was on the right path. http://www.google.com/search?q=electrolytic+capacitor+failure+bulged I recently got a dead motherboard. The caps were bulged. I've replaced them, but I don't know yet if the board is still dead, since I don't have the right CPU and memory on hand with which to test. From colug at jmglov.net Sun Jun 6 16:35:59 2004 From: colug at jmglov.net (Josh Glover) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:34 2005 Subject: Empirical Experience: Good and Bad Electrolytic Capacitors In-Reply-To: <200406061603.28306.rfunk@funknet.net> References: <20040606155155.635d9afe.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> <200406061603.28306.rfunk@funknet.net> Message-ID: <20040606203559.GH23557%jmglov@jmglov.net> Quoth Rob Funk (Sun 2004-06-06 04:03:28PM -0400): > Jim wrote: > > > I just measured some caps salvaged from dead motherboards. > > Many of the caps were bad, with only a few percent to about > > twenty percent of their nominal value. A couple had half > > of their nominal value. All of the bad caps had bulged > > tops. All of the good caps had flat tops. > > Any idea how they get bulged? Sometimes the truth really *is* stranger than fiction: http://www.badcaps.net/causes/ -- Josh Glover Gentoo Developer (http://dev.gentoo.org/~jmglov/) Tokyo Linux Users Group Listmaster (http://www.tlug.jp/) GPG keyID 0xDE8A3103 (C3E4 FA9E 1E07 BBDB 6D8B 07AB 2BF1 67A1 DE8A 3103) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys DE8A3103 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.colug.net/pipermail/colug/attachments/20040606/160f6e5f/attachment.bin From drlinux at columbus.rr.com Sun Jun 6 19:02:53 2004 From: drlinux at columbus.rr.com (Dave Reed) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:34 2005 Subject: Theoretical Whizzing: Good and Bad Electrolytic Capacitors In-Reply-To: <20040606163223.025badcf.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> References: <20040606155155.635d9afe.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> <200406061603.28306.rfunk@funknet.net> <20040606163223.025badcf.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> Message-ID: <200406061902.53150.drlinux@columbus.rr.com> On Sunday 06 June 2004 16:32, Jim wrote: > I recently got a dead motherboard. The caps were bulged. > I've replaced them, but I don't know yet if the board is still dead, > since I don't have the right CPU and memory on hand with which to test. What CPU and memory? I've got a 400 MHz P2 with memory sitting here that's not working because I think the motherboard died. Dave From chris.fuhrman at tfcci.com Sun Jun 6 20:56:09 2004 From: chris.fuhrman at tfcci.com (Chris Fuhrman) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:34 2005 Subject: Onstream DI-30 under kernel 2.6 In-Reply-To: <200406061246.35648.rfunk@funknet.net> References: <200406061246.35648.rfunk@funknet.net> Message-ID: Nope, it's getting an Input/Output error. Hrrrm. Looks like ide-tape was trying to assign it ht0 but using mt -f /dev/ht0 status gives me another Input/output error *grrrrr* If I remember right, Onstream support was removed from ide-tape a little while ago although I think it's still in the Fedora kernel... On Sun, 6 Jun 2004, Rob Funk wrote: > Chris Fuhrman wrote: > > Unfortunately, the osst driver relies a lot on the old ide-scsi driver > > which has been deprecated leaving me somewhat stuck. > > The ide-scsi driver is still there in 2.6, it just isn't required anymore. > (At least not for cd/dvd writers and such.) Look in the kernel source > under drivers/scsi, and you'll find ide-scsi.c. (I just checked 2.6.6.) > > In 2.6 without ide-scsi, you should be able to use the IDE device > (e.g. /dev/hdd) directly. Try "mt -f /dev/hdd status", replacing hdd with > the appropriate IDE device. > > -- > ==============================| "A slice of life isn't the whole cake > Rob Funk | One tooth will never make a full grin" > http://www.funknet.net/rfunk | -- Chris Mars, "Stuck in Rewind" > -- Chris Fuhrman | Twenty First Century Communications chris.fuhrman@tfcci.com | Senior Software Engineer (W) 614-442-1215 x271 | (F) 614-442-5662 | PGP/GPG Public Key Available on Request From pat at linuxcolumbus.com Sun Jun 6 21:03:51 2004 From: pat at linuxcolumbus.com (pat@linuxcolumbus.com) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:34 2005 Subject: cpu wanted Message-ID: <20040607010351.GF9798@linuxcolumbus.com> I'm looking for a socket-A AMD athlon or duran ~1 GHz. This is for a MB with an ISA slot that is needed for a custom card. Pat From skippy at skippy.net Mon Jun 7 08:09:03 2004 From: skippy at skippy.net (Scott Merrill) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:35 2005 Subject: Lunch Today: Monday, June 6 Message-ID: <32881.216.136.35.122.1086610143.squirrel@www.skippy.net> I'll be at the Baja Fresh on Bethel Rd. for lunch today, around 11:30 if anyone cares to join me. From jep200404 at columbus.rr.com Mon Jun 7 08:35:25 2004 From: jep200404 at columbus.rr.com (Jim) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:35 2005 Subject: Replacing Bad Electrolytic Capacitors Saved Motherboard In-Reply-To: <20040606163223.025badcf.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> References: <20040606155155.635d9afe.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> <200406061603.28306.rfunk@funknet.net> <20040606163223.025badcf.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040607083525.21ae55f3.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> Yesterday I wrote: > I recently got a dead motherboard. The caps were bulged. > I've replaced them, but I don't know yet if the board is still dead, > since I don't have the right CPU and memory on hand with which to test. I was able to get my hands on the right CPU and memory. The motherboard works. Yippee! There are some grey bands in the video and there are still some bulged caps by the video chip, so I'll replace those also. From jep200404 at columbus.rr.com Mon Jun 7 20:45:49 2004 From: jep200404 at columbus.rr.com (Jim) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:35 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Replacing Bad Electrolytic Capacitors Saved Motherboard In-Reply-To: <20040607083525.21ae55f3.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> References: <20040606155155.635d9afe.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> <200406061603.28306.rfunk@funknet.net> <20040606163223.025badcf.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> <20040607083525.21ae55f3.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040607204549.60d62ac0.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> Earlier today I wrote: > Yesterday I wrote: > > > I recently got a dead motherboard. The caps were bulged. > > I've replaced them, but I don't know yet if the board is still dead, > > since I don't have the right CPU and memory on hand with which to test. > > I was able to get my hands on the right CPU and memory. > The motherboard works. Yippee! There are some grey bands > in the video and there are still some bulged caps by the > video chip, so I'll replace those also. I replaced four more bulged caps, including three by the video chip. The grey bands in the video are gone and the board boots more reliably now. Sweet! I measured the capacitance of the four bulged caps that I removed: Label Measured 1000uF 155uF 1000uF 109uF 470uF 122uF 470uF 51uF Wow, no wonder the board had not been working well. It's amazing how well it did work with such lousy components. From bob at disclosed.org Tue Jun 8 02:02:39 2004 From: bob at disclosed.org (Robert Jewell) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:35 2005 Subject: Definitions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040608060239.GA8452@disclosed.org> http://www.tldp.org/LDP/Linux-Dictionary/html/ perhaps? :) On Fri, Jun 04, 2004 at 02:31:39PM -0400, wings1446 wrote: > Would anyone happen to know of a good definition web page for Linux, and > possibly the Linux file system (both ext2 and ext3)? > > Thank you. > _______________________________________________ > colug mailing list > colug@colug.net > http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug -- bob From jep200404 at columbus.rr.com Tue Jun 8 17:17:39 2004 From: jep200404 at columbus.rr.com (Jim) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:35 2005 Subject: Bootable Installation DVD for Suse 9.1 [COLUG] Message-ID: <20040608171739.00c4f2c6.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> Suse recently made available for download, Suse 9.1. Here's a script to make two big .iso files for Suse 9.1. One of them is bootable from which one can install Suse from scratch without swapping disks. The other is for the source code. mkdir -p ~/mnt/suse/tmp cd ~/mnt/suse/tmp wget -r -np -c --passive -a log \ ftp://ftp-linux.cc.gatech.edu/pub/suse/suse/i386/9.1 cd ftp-linux.cc.gatech.edu/pub/suse/suse/i386/9.1 mkisofs -o ~/mnt/suse9.1bootableinstall.iso -R -J -V "Suse9.1Boot" \ -b boot/loader/isolinux.bin -c boot/loader/boot.cat -no-emul-boot \ -boot-load-size 4 -boot-info-table -x ./suse/src -graft-points . mkisofs -o ~/mnt/suse9.1src.iso -R -J -V "Suse9.1Source" -graft-points \ suse/src/=suse/src # On my machine: # # $ cd ~/mnt;du -s suse # 7602664 suse # # The iso files require about the same space as the downloads # themselves, so roughly 7602664*2 KBytes or 14.3 GBytes of # space is needed. Needed improvements are: generalization to pull content from other mirrors, allowing user to either pick a mirror from a list, or enter a URL. generalization to allow specification of where to store mirror and big .iso files Option to exclude downloading of source rpms and to not make .iso image for source code Maybe option to pipe output of mkisofs to burner program (to reduce need for so much disk space) From tom at functionalmedia.com Tue Jun 8 18:30:21 2004 From: tom at functionalmedia.com (tom hanlon) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:35 2005 Subject: Computer Associates, ingres and zope/plone Message-ID: <6D5EE1CE-B99B-11D8-B282-00039317745E@functionalmedia.com> Colug, I am still plugging away at zope/plone and the like. I came across some interesting information that I thought I would pass along. First some general comments on zope and plone. I still have mixed feelings about the products but I have found that compiling from source against a modern python is the way to go with those tools. For a number of reasons having to do with the design of the product or with the nature of it's development some things in ZOpe/plone are just a lot harder to do than they ought to be. The products have enough redeemable characteristics that I am likely going to continue plugging away. Here is the news. Computer associates has released some improvements to zope/plone. CA calls their additions "enterprise enhancements" I have yet to play with them. Here is the URL. http://www3.ca.com/Press/PressRelease.asp?CID=59297 http://www3.ca.com/Solutions/Collateral.asp?CID=59178 http://www3.ca.com/Solutions/Collateral.asp?CID=59442 The enhancements make use of ingres instead of the ZODB. THis made me curious about licensing issues and I was glad to find that CA is open sourcing (is that a verb ? to open source) Ingres. Any ingres fans out there? http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=16222 Tom From robb at bossleyfamily.com Tue Jun 8 14:32:41 2004 From: robb at bossleyfamily.com (Robb Bossley) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:35 2005 Subject: What could the problem be? Message-ID: <20040608183241.7149567d.robb@bossleyfamily.com> I have an older computer which I have utilized for the past couple of years. Recently, I reinstalled Linux on it for the Nth time, this time utilizing the fact that I have two scsi drives and making all but one partition part of a RAID array. My question is this. I have tried to copy the latest kernel (2.6.6) in bz2 form onto this computer, both from my usb storage device and from a one time writeable disk. Each copies just fine. However, when I go to untar it (tar -xjvf), I get a complaint that the headers?? for the bz2 format are corrupted. The odd thing is that each time was from a different download, and the downloads are fine because they work on other computers when unzipped just fine. What would this indicate, and is there any way to fix the problem? I suspect a failing hard drive may be the culprit, but I'm not sure. Is there a good way to test the harddrives? All I want to do is upgrade the kernel. Thanks, Robb From vherried at insight.rr.com Tue Jun 8 19:23:48 2004 From: vherried at insight.rr.com (Vince Herried) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:35 2005 Subject: What could the problem be... Message-ID: <200406081923.51281.vherried@insight.rr.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 use bunzip2 first. - -- Vince Herried GPG keyID 0xD004D08366 (8366 F97C AE0A 59AA CB14 952D 85C6 304A D004 D001) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys D004D001 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAxkqHhcYwStAE0AERAryJAKCyYoytB1Tl5S+m4T2raAzo2w5BhACfcPgu HEmtBNa/GZENw43Bvo0oq8I= =ICXA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rfunk at funknet.net Tue Jun 8 19:48:34 2004 From: rfunk at funknet.net (Rob Funk) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:35 2005 Subject: What could the problem be? In-Reply-To: <20040608183241.7149567d.robb@bossleyfamily.com> References: <20040608183241.7149567d.robb@bossleyfamily.com> Message-ID: <200406081948.34271.rfunk@funknet.net> Robb Bossley wrote: > My question is this. I have tried to copy the latest kernel (2.6.6) in > bz2 form onto this computer, both from my usb storage device and from a > one time writeable disk. Each copies just fine. However, when I go to > untar it (tar -xjvf), I get a complaint that the headers?? for the bz2 > format are corrupted. The odd thing is that each time was from a > different download, and the downloads are fine because they work on > other computers when unzipped just fine. Maybe something's getting corrupted in the copy to that computer? Did you download and verify the GPG signature? http://www.us.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-2.6.6.tar.bz2.sign For details on this, see: http://www.kernel.org/signature.html You could also try downloading the gzipped version instead, in case bzip2 is somehow the problem. http://www.us.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-2.6.6.tar.gz http://www.us.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-2.6.6.tar.gz.sign It's most useful if you check the signature after transferring the compressed file to its final destination, to make sure it got there intact. -- ==============================| "A slice of life isn't the whole cake Rob Funk | One tooth will never make a full grin" http://www.funknet.net/rfunk | -- Chris Mars, "Stuck in Rewind" From ddlucas at lse.com Tue Jun 8 22:05:04 2004 From: ddlucas at lse.com (David D. Lucas) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:35 2005 Subject: What could the problem be? In-Reply-To: <20040608183241.7149567d.robb@bossleyfamily.com> References: <20040608183241.7149567d.robb@bossleyfamily.com> Message-ID: <40C67050.2040701@lse.com> In case you are running out of ideas... If you have enough space, try manually bunzip2 the tar.bz2 file to see if it uncompresses. Make sure it is a bzip2 file ( $ file ). If it is not identified as one, perhaps its just a tar with the wrong extension. Just something to look at... Best wishes, Dave Robb Bossley wrote: > I have an older computer which I have utilized for the past couple of years. Recently, I reinstalled Linux on it for the Nth time, this time utilizing the fact that I have two scsi drives and making all but one partition part of a RAID array. > > My question is this. I have tried to copy the latest kernel (2.6.6) in bz2 form onto this computer, both from my usb storage device and from a one time writeable disk. Each copies just fine. However, when I go to untar it (tar -xjvf), I get a complaint that the headers?? for the bz2 format are corrupted. The odd thing is that each time was from a different download, and the downloads are fine because they work on other computers when unzipped just fine. > > What would this indicate, and is there any way to fix the problem? I suspect a failing hard drive may be the culprit, but I'm not sure. Is there a good way to test the harddrives? All I want to do is upgrade the kernel. > > Thanks, > > Robb > _______________________________________________ > colug mailing list > colug@colug.net > http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug > -- +------------------------------------------------------------+ | David Lucas mailto: ddlucas @ lse.com | | Lucas Software Engineering, Inc. (740) 964-6248 Voice | | Unix,Java,C++,CORBA,XML,EJB (614) 668-4020 Mobile | | Middleware,Frameworks (888) 866-4728 Fax/Msg | +------------------------------------------------------------+ | GPS Location: 40.0150 deg Lat, -82.6378 deg Long | | IMHC: "Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life." | | IMHC: "I know where I am; I know where I'm going." <>< | +------------------------------------------------------------+ Notes: PGP Key Block=http://www.lse.com/~ddlucas/pgpblock.txt IMHO="in my humble opinion" IMHC="in my humble conviction" All trademarks above are those of their respective owners. From s.molnar at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 9 07:20:06 2004 From: s.molnar at sbcglobal.net (Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D.) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:35 2005 Subject: Fw: Installation Problem Message-ID: <20040609072006.4de37b02@abnormal.ffc> Trying again for a response. Begin forwarded message: Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 16:21:53 -0400 From: "Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D." To: COLUG Subject: Installation Problem I'm currently running SuSE v9.0 with the root on /dev/hda3 and thought that I'd give RedHat Fedora a try (aster all, the price is right). I downloaded the iso images and successfully burned the CD's. The Fedora installer checked them and they passed. I decided to install Fedora on a different HD (I have 3 on the platform) and told the Fedora installer to use /dev/hdb2 as the root directory, the installer found the swap partition. The installer went ahead and did so without any complaints and the installation went trundling along. Fedora uses the grub boot loader, which is what I've been using for a couple of years now, and the installer found the SuSE partition and let me select it as the default. So far, so good, or at least I though so until I rebooted the system. Grub opened up with linux as the default, and it turned out to be my SuSE partition. Fedora was not in evidence, nor could I mount the partition once I was up and running in SuSE. The error message is: abnormal:/ # mount -t ext3 /dev/hdb2 /Fedora mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/hdb2, or too many mounted file systems (aren't you trying to mount an extended partition, instead of some logical partition inside?) In fact if I do fdisk on /dev/hdb it tells me that /dev/hdb2 is ID f and the System is Win95 Ext'd (LBA). I would at least like to be able to start the Fedora partition. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks in advance. -- Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D. Life is a fuzzy set Foundation for Chemistry Stochastic and multivariant http://www.geocities.com/FoundationForChemistry -- Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D. Life is a fuzzy set Foundation for Chemistry Stochastic and multivariant http://www.geocities.com/FoundationForChemistry From robb at bossleyfamily.com Wed Jun 9 07:51:50 2004 From: robb at bossleyfamily.com (robb@bossleyfamily.com) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:35 2005 Subject: Low level format of hard drive Message-ID: <1218.12.126.242.238.1086781910.squirrel@66.90.81.14> What would be the best way to reformat a computer hard drive with some bad sectors that I want to put Linux on? How can the bad sectors be fixed or avoided? From pat at linuxcolumbus.com Wed Jun 9 08:39:48 2004 From: pat at linuxcolumbus.com (pat@linuxcolumbus.com) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:35 2005 Subject: Fwd: Installation Problem In-Reply-To: <20040526162105.GC3821@linuxcolumbus.com> References: <6.0.0.22.2.20040526115419.0286be60@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com> <20040526162105.GC3821@linuxcolumbus.com> Message-ID: <20040609123948.GM9798@linuxcolumbus.com> Stephen, I did reply, you did not answer. Pat On Wed, May 26, 2004 at 12:21:05PM -0400, pat@linuxcolumbus.com wrote: > On Wed, May 26, 2004 at 11:54:27AM -0400, Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D. wrote: > > >So far, so good, or at least I though so > > >until I rebooted the system. Grub opened up with linux as the default, > > >and it turned out to be my SuSE partition. Fedora was not in evidence, > > >nor could I mount the partition once I was up and running in SuSE. The > > >error message is: > > > > > What does /boot/grub/grub.conf look like? Does it have an entry to boot > from the fedora partition? > > > > >abnormal:/ # mount -t ext3 /dev/hdb2 /Fedora > > >mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/hdb2, > > > or too many mounted file systems > > > (aren't you trying to mount an extended partition, > > > instead of some logical partition inside?) > > > > > >In fact if I do fdisk on /dev/hdb it tells me that /dev/hdb2 is ID f and > > >the System is Win95 Ext'd (LBA). > > > > > You are trying to mount the extended partition. > > Pat > _______________________________________________ > colug mailing list > colug@colug.net > http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug > From frank_rieder at bankone.com Wed Jun 9 08:47:33 2004 From: frank_rieder at bankone.com (frank_rieder@bankone.com) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:35 2005 Subject: Fw: Installation Problem Message-ID: Sorry this may be a little off target but, something grabbed my attention. Quote"I decided to install Fedora on a different HD (I have 3 on the platform) and told the Fedora installer to use /dev/hdb2 as the root directory, the installer found the swap partition."/Quote I thought it was a bad practice to use the samw swap partition for multiple Linux Installs? I have always kept all of my installs on different Disks, with their own swap. That would save me a few GIG if I could reuse the Swap. Frank Rieder Operations Specialist Banc One Leasing Corporation Mail code OH1-1085 Phone: 614-213-4591 Fax: 614-213-2083 toll-free 800-879-7184 ext. 34591 Email : Frank Rieder@Bankone.com "Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D." @colug.net on 06/09/2004 07:20:06 AM Sent by: colug-bounces@colug.net To: COLUG cc: Subject: Fw: Installation Problem Trying again for a response. Begin forwarded message: Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 16:21:53 -0400 From: "Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D." To: COLUG Subject: Installation Problem I'm currently running SuSE v9.0 with the root on /dev/hda3 and thought that I'd give RedHat Fedora a try (aster all, the price is right). I downloaded the iso images and successfully burned the CD's. The Fedora installer checked them and they passed. I decided to install Fedora on a different HD (I have 3 on the platform) and told the Fedora installer to use /dev/hdb2 as the root directory, the installer found the swap partition. The installer went ahead and did so without any complaints and the installation went trundling along. Fedora uses the grub boot loader, which is what I've been using for a couple of years now, and the installer found the SuSE partition and let me select it as the default. So far, so good, or at least I though so until I rebooted the system. Grub opened up with linux as the default, and it turned out to be my SuSE partition. Fedora was not in evidence, nor could I mount the partition once I was up and running in SuSE. The error message is: abnormal:/ # mount -t ext3 /dev/hdb2 /Fedora mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/hdb2, or too many mounted file systems (aren't you trying to mount an extended partition, instead of some logical partition inside?) In fact if I do fdisk on /dev/hdb it tells me that /dev/hdb2 is ID f and the System is Win95 Ext'd (LBA). I would at least like to be able to start the Fedora partition. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks in advance. -- Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D. Life is a fuzzy set Foundation for Chemistry Stochastic and multivariant http://www.geocities.com/FoundationForChemistry -- Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D. Life is a fuzzy set Foundation for Chemistry Stochastic and multivariant http://www.geocities.com/FoundationForChemistry _______________________________________________ colug mailing list colug@colug.net http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. From sjs at khadrin.com Wed Jun 9 09:56:05 2004 From: sjs at khadrin.com (Stephen J. Smith) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:35 2005 Subject: Fw: Sharing swap and /boot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1086789365.22310.10.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 08:47, frank_rieder@bankone.com wrote: > I thought it was a bad practice to use the samw swap partition for multiple > Linux Installs? Linux installations absolutely can use the same swap space, just not at the same time. I do it all the time. I'm interested in sharing /boot also, which can be done supposedly. Anyone doing this? I tried it once with SuSE and Fedora, but one of them completely overwrote /boot. It's entirely possible I didn't configure the install correctly though. Do the installers typically handle sharing /boot? Or is it a matter of migrating each /boot to the seperate partition after the install? -- Stephen J. Smith | sjs@khadrin.com | http://khadrin.com/ From colug at jmglov.net Wed Jun 9 10:03:29 2004 From: colug at jmglov.net (Josh Glover) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:35 2005 Subject: Fw: Sharing swap and /boot In-Reply-To: <1086789365.22310.10.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> References: <1086789365.22310.10.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> Message-ID: <4081.24.123.50.150.1086789809.squirrel@24.123.50.150> Quoth Stephen J. Smith: > I'm interested in sharing /boot also, which can be done supposedly. > Anyone doing this? I tried it once with SuSE and Fedora, but one of > them completely overwrote /boot. It's entirely possible I didn't > configure the install correctly though. > > Do the installers typically handle sharing /boot? Or is it a matter of > migrating each /boot to the seperate partition after the install? Installers that blow away /boot are evil. Yes, you can share /boot between multiple distros--why not use the same kernel on SuSE and Fedora? They are both running on the same hardware, after all. Are you sure that you told the installer to preserve data on boot? If the installer does not give you the option, you can always let it put /boot on the / partition, and then tweak /etc/fstab afterwards. -- Josh Glover GPG keyID 0xDE8A3103 (C3E4 FA9E 1E07 BBDB 6D8B 07AB 2BF1 67A1 DE8A 3103) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys DE8A3103 From jep200404 at columbus.rr.com Wed Jun 9 10:20:53 2004 From: jep200404 at columbus.rr.com (Jim) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:35 2005 Subject: Fw: Sharing swap and /boot In-Reply-To: <1086789365.22310.10.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> References: <1086789365.22310.10.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> Message-ID: <20040609102053.7dc5e512.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> "Stephen J. Smith" wrote: > I'm interested in sharing /boot also, which can be done supposedly. Yes. > Anyone doing this? I tried it once with SuSE and Fedora, but one of > them completely overwrote /boot. That's no surprise. It might have given you some option to do otherwise. Even if not, you could have it install /boot to a separate partition, then migrate that information to your shared /boot partition. From sjs at khadrin.com Wed Jun 9 10:37:21 2004 From: sjs at khadrin.com (Stephen J. Smith) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:35 2005 Subject: Fw: Sharing swap and /boot In-Reply-To: <4081.24.123.50.150.1086789809.squirrel@24.123.50.150> References: <1086789365.22310.10.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> <4081.24.123.50.150.1086789809.squirrel@24.123.50.150> Message-ID: <1086791840.2521.8.camel@mamba.khadrin.com> On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 10:03, Josh Glover wrote: > Installers that blow away /boot are evil. Yes, you can share /boot between > multiple distros--why not use the same kernel on SuSE and Fedora? They are > both running on the same hardware, after all. Interesting. I'll have to try that some time. > Are you sure that you told the installer to preserve data on boot? If the > installer does not give you the option, you can always let it put /boot on the > / partition, and then tweak /etc/fstab afterwards. Oh no, not sure at all. I messed it up one time and was a little nervous about trying it again I guess. Not anymore, thanks! From ken at alpha2.com Wed Jun 9 11:36:59 2004 From: ken at alpha2.com (Ken Bradford) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:36 2005 Subject: Iptables and portforwarding to an internal webserver. Message-ID: <007801c44e37$9aab4560$690aa8c0@alpha2.com> I've run into a snag forwarding ports 80 & 443 to an internal webserver for a client. I _thought_ everything was fine. I could access their webserver from my office just fine, but it turns out they can't access it internally by going to the public address. Were using Firestarter 0.8.2 (it's a RH7.2 box). The pertinent code is: $IPT -A FORWARD -p TCP -d 192.168.20.5 --dport 80 -j ACCEPT $IPT -A PREROUTING -t nat -p TCP -d $NET --dport 80 -j DNAT --to 192.168.20.5:80 $IPT -A FORWARD -p TCP -d 192.168.20.5 --dport 443 -j ACCEPT $IPT -A PREROUTING -t nat -p TCP -d $NET --dport 443 -j DNAT --to 192.168.20.5:443 I tried changing this to: $IPT -A FORWARD -p TCP -d 192.168.20.5 --dport 80 -j ACCEPT $IPT -A PREROUTING -t nat -p TCP -d $NET --dport 80 -j DNAT --to 192.168.20.5:80 $IPT -A PREROUTING -t nat -p TCP -d $INNET --dport 80 -j DNAT --to 192.168.20.5:80 $IPT -A FORWARD -p TCP -d 192.168.20.5 --dport 443 -j ACCEPT $IPT -A PREROUTING -t nat -p TCP -d $NET --dport 443 -j DNAT --to 192.168.20.5:443 $IPT -A PREROUTING -t nat -p TCP -d $INNET --dport 443 -j DNAT --to 192.168.20.5:443 But this did not help. It does not seem to be a local dns issue. $IPT = iptables $NET = external interface/netmask $INNET = internal interface/netmask Anything obvious, or not so obvious, that I'm missing? Any suggestions? Ken Bradford Alpha II Service, Inc. From jep200404 at columbus.rr.com Wed Jun 9 12:03:51 2004 From: jep200404 at columbus.rr.com (Jim) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:36 2005 Subject: Fw: Sharing swap and /boot In-Reply-To: <4081.24.123.50.150.1086789809.squirrel@24.123.50.150> References: <1086789365.22310.10.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> <4081.24.123.50.150.1086789809.squirrel@24.123.50.150> Message-ID: <20040609120351.06ba67f1.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 10:03:29 -0400 (EDT) Josh Glover wrote: > you can always let [a linux installer] put /boot on the > / partition, and then tweak /etc/fstab afterwards. This can be troublesome with big drives on boxes with old BIOSs. /boot is typically in a separate partition, so that the entirety of it can be placed at the beginning of a drive. Nonetheless, installing /boot to somewhere other than an existing /boot partition, and tweaking stuff later is fine. From rfunk at funknet.net Wed Jun 9 13:46:46 2004 From: rfunk at funknet.net (Rob Funk) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:36 2005 Subject: Iptables and portforwarding to an internal webserver. In-Reply-To: <007801c44e37$9aab4560$690aa8c0@alpha2.com> References: <007801c44e37$9aab4560$690aa8c0@alpha2.com> Message-ID: <200406091346.46894.rfunk@funknet.net> Ken Bradford wrote: > I've run into a snag forwarding ports 80 & 443 to an internal webserver > for a client. I _thought_ everything was fine. I could access their > webserver from my office just fine, but it turns out they can't access > it internally by going to the public address. At my old company we called this the "in-out-in" or "IOI" problem, because the inside is trying to go out and then back in. I think we ended up with some userland daemon hack to fix it, which I never liked. On the other hand, I wasn't in the room for the conversations that spawned the name or the solution. (Also, at the time we were using OpenBSD, not Linux.) I think the easiest solution is to fix it in DNS, so that the internal DNS server returns internal addresses for public names. Using my domain as an example, you might set it up so that the outside gets 65.118.13.43 when they look up www.funknet.net, but the inside gets 192.168.20.5 when they look up the www.funknet.net. It looks like you tried to add rules saying "rewrite TCP packets destined for any internal machine's web ports so they go to the web server." This wouldn't do any good since your problem is with packets destined for the external address, not the internal address. However, you already had rules rewriting packets destined for the external address. I think the solution may lie in changing some drop rules you didn't show us. You need your FORWARD chain (and OUTPUT chain) to allow packets from $INNET to $INNET. Also try adding some log rules matching the internal and external address of the web server. -- ==============================| "A slice of life isn't the whole cake Rob Funk | One tooth will never make a full grin" http://www.funknet.net/rfunk | -- Chris Mars, "Stuck in Rewind" From colug at jmglov.net Wed Jun 9 20:51:47 2004 From: colug at jmglov.net (Josh Glover) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:36 2005 Subject: Fw: Sharing swap and /boot In-Reply-To: <20040609120351.06ba67f1.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> References: <1086789365.22310.10.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> <4081.24.123.50.150.1086789809.squirrel@24.123.50.150> <20040609120351.06ba67f1.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040610005146.GA7025%jmglov@jmglov.net> Quoth Jim (Wed 2004-06-09 12:03:51PM -0400): > On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 10:03:29 -0400 (EDT) Josh Glover wrote: > > > you can always let [a linux installer] put /boot on the > > / partition, and then tweak /etc/fstab afterwards. > > This can be troublesome with big drives on boxes with old BIOSs. > /boot is typically in a separate partition, > so that the entirety of it can be placed at the beginning of a drive. > > Nonetheless, installing /boot to somewhere other than an existing > /boot partition, and tweaking stuff later is fine. Right, that is what I was advocating. Besides the very good reason you mentioned, keeping /boot at the beginning of the drive, another great reason to partition it separately is so that you can keep it unmounted until you need it, so it is really hard to screw it up. My /etc/fstab has a line like this: /dev/hda1 /boot ext2 noauto,noatime 1 1 Not only is it not mounted by default, it is also ext2 so that I do not have to pay the disk space cost for a journalling filesystem. Since it is only mounted when I am copying a new bzImage over, I am not too worried about the consistency of that partition. -- Josh Glover Gentoo Developer (http://dev.gentoo.org/~jmglov/) Tokyo Linux Users Group Listmaster (http://www.tlug.jp/) GPG keyID 0xDE8A3103 (C3E4 FA9E 1E07 BBDB 6D8B 07AB 2BF1 67A1 DE8A 3103) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys DE8A3103 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.colug.net/pipermail/colug/attachments/20040609/5cc0670c/attachment.bin From judd at jpilot.org Wed Jun 9 21:42:06 2004 From: judd at jpilot.org (Judd Montgomery) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:36 2005 Subject: Low level format of hard drive In-Reply-To: <1218.12.126.242.238.1086781910.squirrel@66.90.81.14> References: <1218.12.126.242.238.1086781910.squirrel@66.90.81.14> Message-ID: <40C7BC6E.9090308@jpilot.org> robb@bossleyfamily.com wrote: > What would be the best way to reformat a computer hard drive with some bad > sectors that I want to put Linux on? How can the bad sectors be fixed or > avoided? You don't need to low level format it. Use dumpe2fs -b /dev/{dev} to see what blocks are currently marked bad. While the drive is unmounted do a e2fsck -c -c -C 0 /dev/{dev} to find and mark new blocks bad. Usually when this starts happening to a drive the bad blocks will keep spreading. From judd at jpilot.org Wed Jun 9 21:51:18 2004 From: judd at jpilot.org (Judd Montgomery) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:36 2005 Subject: What could the problem be? In-Reply-To: <20040608183241.7149567d.robb@bossleyfamily.com> References: <20040608183241.7149567d.robb@bossleyfamily.com> Message-ID: <40C7BE96.1050802@jpilot.org> Robb Bossley wrote: > I have an older computer which I have utilized for the past couple of years. Recently, I reinstalled Linux on it for the Nth time, this time utilizing the fact that I have two scsi drives and making all but one partition part of a RAID array. > > My question is this. I have tried to copy the latest kernel (2.6.6) in bz2 form onto this computer, both from my usb storage device and from a one time writeable disk. Each copies just fine. However, when I go to untar it (tar -xjvf), I get a complaint that the headers?? for the bz2 format are corrupted. The odd thing is that each time was from a different download, and the downloads are fine because they work on other computers when unzipped just fine. > > What would this indicate, and is there any way to fix the problem? I suspect a failing hard drive may be the culprit, but I'm not sure. Is there a good way to test the harddrives? All I want to do is upgrade the kernel. > > Thanks, > > Robb I had an Athlon 700 that developed this problem. I suspect that it was the processor, or possibly the motherboard. Everything else I had swapped out. I could make the problem worse by doing processor intensive tasks such as ripping mp3s. It also would fail while compiling the kernel and a simple restart of the compile would go further and so on until it was done. I underclocked it and used it for another 6 months and it started happening again. I sold it on ebay with full disclosure. Judd From robb at bossleyfamily.com Thu Jun 10 14:41:36 2004 From: robb at bossleyfamily.com (robb@bossleyfamily.com) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:36 2005 Subject: What could the problem be? In-Reply-To: <40C7BE96.1050802@jpilot.org> References: <20040608183241.7149567d.robb@bossleyfamily.com> <40C7BE96.1050802@jpilot.org> Message-ID: <1485.12.126.242.238.1086892896.squirrel@66.90.81.14> Just to give an update. It does appear to be something that is going wrong with the processor, motherboard, or hard drive setup. I was able to unzip the bz2 kernel with bunzip2 first, but in compiling, I got segmentation faults. It would run for a while without any errors, and then a segmentation fault would occur. I don't know if it has something to do with the software raid that I have running, or if it is just a hardware issue. Any ways to check this problem and narrow it down? > Robb Bossley wrote: >> I have an older computer which I have utilized for the past couple of >> years. Recently, I reinstalled Linux on it for the Nth time, this time >> utilizing the fact that I have two scsi drives and making all but one >> partition part of a RAID array. >> >> My question is this. I have tried to copy the latest kernel (2.6.6) in >> bz2 form onto this computer, both from my usb storage device and from a >> one time writeable disk. Each copies just fine. However, when I go to >> untar it (tar -xjvf), I get a complaint that the headers?? for the bz2 >> format are corrupted. The odd thing is that each time was from a >> different download, and the downloads are fine because they work on >> other computers when unzipped just fine. >> >> What would this indicate, and is there any way to fix the problem? I >> suspect a failing hard drive may be the culprit, but I'm not sure. Is >> there a good way to test the harddrives? All I want to do is upgrade >> the kernel. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Robb > > I had an Athlon 700 that developed this problem. I suspect that it was > the processor, or possibly the motherboard. Everything else I had > swapped out. I could make the problem worse by doing processor > intensive tasks such as ripping mp3s. It also would fail while > compiling the kernel and a simple restart of the compile would go > further and so on until it was done. I underclocked it and used it for > another 6 months and it started happening again. I sold it on ebay with > full disclosure. > > Judd > _______________________________________________ > colug mailing list > colug@colug.net > http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug > From josh at bitbuckets.com Thu Jun 10 17:40:35 2004 From: josh at bitbuckets.com (Joshua Kramer) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:36 2005 Subject: What could the problem be? In-Reply-To: <1485.12.126.242.238.1086892896.squirrel@66.90.81.14> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 robb@bossleyfamily.com wrote: > Just to give an update. It does appear to be something that is going > wrong with the processor, motherboard, or hard drive setup. I was able to Does this setup work reliably with the 2.4 kernel? Can you compile stuff on it without doing segfaults? A loooooooooooooong time ago I bought myself a spankin' new motherboard with an AMD K6-2/350 and 96MB of RAM. *most* things worked great as usual, but my mouse cursor in X left artifacts and I couldn't compile anything without getting a segfault. So, I started playing with the cache settings and pipeline settings, and if I disabled the external cache, things worked flawlessly without too much of a performance hit. Re-enable the cache and I got the errors. Perhaps the 2.6 kernel doesn't like the timing of your motherboard, or maybe there's some flaky hardware. Try to de-tune the timing a bit or even underclock the processor to see if the errors go away. --Josh From ddlucas at lse.com Thu Jun 10 23:41:21 2004 From: ddlucas at lse.com (David D. Lucas) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:36 2005 Subject: What could the problem be? In-Reply-To: <1485.12.126.242.238.1086892896.squirrel@66.90.81.14> References: <20040608183241.7149567d.robb@bossleyfamily.com> <40C7BE96.1050802@jpilot.org> <1485.12.126.242.238.1086892896.squirrel@66.90.81.14> Message-ID: <40C929E1.4040704@lse.com> I have seen this kind of problem during kernel compiles when I had two SIMMs providing 256MB. The first I bought with the mother board. The second 128MB I bought about 2 years later. Thy had problems because of different makers and specs. I ended up trading them both in and getting a new motherboard with 512MB (2x256MB). Lesson learned: Always max out your memory when you buy the motherboard. Keep your memory in sync, same type, same speed, same manufacture. There is an memtest module you can boot up to test your memory. Check out http://www.memtest86.com and read their suggestions. Best Wishes, Dave robb@bossleyfamily.com wrote: > > > > Just to give an update. It does appear to be something that is going > wrong with the processor, motherboard, or hard drive setup. I was able to > unzip the bz2 kernel with bunzip2 first, but in compiling, I got > segmentation faults. It would run for a while without any errors, and > then a segmentation fault would occur. I don't know if it has something > to do with the software raid that I have running, or if it is just a > hardware issue. Any ways to check this problem and narrow it down? > > >>Robb Bossley wrote: >> >>>I have an older computer which I have utilized for the past couple of >>>years. Recently, I reinstalled Linux on it for the Nth time, this time >>>utilizing the fact that I have two scsi drives and making all but one >>>partition part of a RAID array. >>> >>>My question is this. I have tried to copy the latest kernel (2.6.6) in >>>bz2 form onto this computer, both from my usb storage device and from a >>>one time writeable disk. Each copies just fine. However, when I go to >>>untar it (tar -xjvf), I get a complaint that the headers?? for the bz2 >>>format are corrupted. The odd thing is that each time was from a >>>different download, and the downloads are fine because they work on >>>other computers when unzipped just fine. >>> >>>What would this indicate, and is there any way to fix the problem? I >>>suspect a failing hard drive may be the culprit, but I'm not sure. Is >>>there a good way to test the harddrives? All I want to do is upgrade >>>the kernel. >>> >>>Thanks, >>> >>>Robb >> >>I had an Athlon 700 that developed this problem. I suspect that it was >>the processor, or possibly the motherboard. Everything else I had >>swapped out. I could make the problem worse by doing processor >>intensive tasks such as ripping mp3s. It also would fail while >>compiling the kernel and a simple restart of the compile would go >>further and so on until it was done. I underclocked it and used it for >>another 6 months and it started happening again. I sold it on ebay with >>full disclosure. >> >>Judd >>_______________________________________________ >>colug mailing list >>colug@colug.net >>http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug >> > > > _______________________________________________ > colug mailing list > colug@colug.net > http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug > -- +------------------------------------------------------------+ | David Lucas mailto: ddlucas @ lse.com | | Lucas Software Engineering, Inc. (740) 964-6248 Voice | | Unix,Java,C++,CORBA,XML,EJB (614) 668-4020 Mobile | | Middleware,Frameworks (888) 866-4728 Fax/Msg | +------------------------------------------------------------+ | GPS Location: 40.0150 deg Lat, -82.6378 deg Long | | IMHC: "Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life." | | IMHC: "I know where I am; I know where I'm going." <>< | +------------------------------------------------------------+ Notes: PGP Key Block=http://www.lse.com/~ddlucas/pgpblock.txt IMHO="in my humble opinion" IMHC="in my humble conviction" All trademarks above are those of their respective owners. From lefevre.10 at osu.edu Fri Jun 11 12:38:58 2004 From: lefevre.10 at osu.edu (Steve Lefevre) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:36 2005 Subject: Flash creation programs? Message-ID: <40C9E022.5010608@osu.edu> Hey folks - I'm interested in playing around with some Flash animations. Of course, I don't want any proprietary software. Are there Flash content creation applications that are FOSS? Steve Lefevre From chris.fuhrman at tfcci.com Fri Jun 11 12:56:35 2004 From: chris.fuhrman at tfcci.com (Chris Fuhrman) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:37 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Iptables and portforwarding to an internal webserver.] Message-ID: <1086972994.2592.58.camel@icestorm.tfcc.com> Whoops ... mis-addressed this. -- Chris Fuhrman | Twenty First Century Communications chris.fuhrman@tfcci.com | Senior Software Engineer (W) 614-442-1215 x271 | (F) 614-442-5662 | PGP/GPG Public Key Available on Request -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Chris Fuhrman Subject: Re: Iptables and portforwarding to an internal webserver. Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 08:45:35 -0400 Size: 4082 Url: http://www.colug.net/pipermail/colug/attachments/20040611/06690019/attachment.eml From pat at linuxcolumbus.com Fri Jun 11 13:12:44 2004 From: pat at linuxcolumbus.com (pat@linuxcolumbus.com) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:37 2005 Subject: Flash creation programs? In-Reply-To: <40C9E022.5010608@osu.edu> References: <40C9E022.5010608@osu.edu> Message-ID: <20040611171244.GZ9798@linuxcolumbus.com> On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 12:38:58PM -0400, Steve Lefevre wrote: > Hey folks - > > I'm interested in playing around with some Flash animations. Of course, > I don't want any proprietary software. Are there Flash content creation > applications that are FOSS? > http://f4l.sourceforge.net is one. Pat From ken at alpha2.com Fri Jun 11 13:41:17 2004 From: ken at alpha2.com (Ken Bradford) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:37 2005 Subject: Iptables and portforwarding to an internal webserver. In-Reply-To: <200406091346.46894.rfunk@funknet.net> Message-ID: <00ad01c44fdb$4ce7ac60$690aa8c0@alpha2.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: colug-bounces@colug.net [mailto:colug-bounces@colug.net]On Behalf > Of Rob Funk > Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 1:47 PM > To: COLUG > Subject: Re: Iptables and portforwarding to an internal webserver. > > > Ken Bradford wrote: > > I've run into a snag forwarding ports 80 & 443 to an internal webserver > > for a client. I _thought_ everything was fine. I could access their > > webserver from my office just fine, but it turns out they can't access > > it internally by going to the public address. > > At my old company we called this the "in-out-in" or "IOI" > problem, because > the inside is trying to go out and then back in. I think we > ended up with > some userland daemon hack to fix it, which I never liked. On the other > hand, I wasn't in the room for the conversations that spawned the name or > the solution. (Also, at the time we were using OpenBSD, not Linux.) > > I think the easiest solution is to fix it in DNS, so that the > internal DNS > server returns internal addresses for public names. Using my > domain as an > example, you might set it up so that the outside gets 65.118.13.43 when > they look up www.funknet.net, but the inside gets 192.168.20.5 when they > look up the www.funknet.net. > I think you might be right. > > It looks like you tried to add rules saying "rewrite TCP packets destined > for any internal machine's web ports so they go to the web server." This > wouldn't do any good since your problem is with packets destined for the > external address, not the internal address. However, you already had > rules rewriting packets destined for the external address. Yes, that makes sense. > > I think the solution may lie in changing some drop rules you didn't show > us. You need your FORWARD chain (and OUTPUT chain) to allow packets from > $INNET to $INNET. Yes, that would seem necessary. It didn't solve the problem, but would seem necessary. > > Also try adding some log rules matching the internal and external address > of the web server. Yes, very usefull indeed. Tcpdump too. It appears that the problem is a simple "what is sent and what is expected" one. When my PC sends packets accross the internet to their firewall address (which are then redirected to the webserver) it expects packets back from the firewall. When "George" sends packets across his LAN to the firewall (which are then redirected to the webserver) they arrive at the webserver as coming from "George", not the firewall, so return packets are sent to "George", not the firewall. Meanwhile, "George" is expecting packets from the firewall. He didn't request anything from the webserver, so he doesn't want them. Ken Bradford Alpha II Service, Inc. From rfunk at funknet.net Fri Jun 11 14:39:26 2004 From: rfunk at funknet.net (Rob Funk) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:37 2005 Subject: Iptables and portforwarding to an internal webserver. In-Reply-To: <00ad01c44fdb$4ce7ac60$690aa8c0@alpha2.com> References: <00ad01c44fdb$4ce7ac60$690aa8c0@alpha2.com> Message-ID: <200406111439.26353.rfunk@funknet.net> Ken Bradford wrote: > It appears that the problem is a simple "what is sent and what is > expected" one. When my PC sends packets accross the internet to their > firewall address (which are then redirected to the webserver) it expects > packets back from the firewall. When "George" sends packets across his > LAN to the firewall (which are then redirected to the webserver) they > arrive at the webserver as coming from "George", not the firewall, so > return packets are sent to "George", not the firewall. Meanwhile, > "George" is expecting packets from the firewall. He didn't request > anything from the webserver, so he doesn't want them. Ah yes, that problem. SNAT might be able to help here, though I haven't tried it for this purpose. Or you could go back to the DNS solution or the inetd solution Chris mentioned. -- ==============================| "A microscope locked in on one point Rob Funk |Never sees what kind of room that it's in" http://www.funknet.net/rfunk | -- Chris Mars, "Stuck in Rewind" From archanoid at columbus.rr.com Fri Jun 11 13:40:51 2004 From: archanoid at columbus.rr.com (archanoid@columbus.rr.com) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:37 2005 Subject: Flash creation programs? Message-ID: <15412491540849.15408491541249@columbus.rr.com> Steve Lefevre wrote: > > I'm interested in playing around with some Flash > animations. Of course, I don't want any > proprietary software. I'm not sure if that is an example of irony or an oxymoron. Flash is owned and controlled tightly by Macromedia. > Are there Flash content creation applications > that are FOSS? The F4l project looks like a workalike, not an actual tool for creating Flash (swf) content...but I could be wrong. It seems to me if you are intent on creating actual Flash content for playback with Macromedia's Flash player, you've already defeated your stated goal of not running proprietary software. Maybe you should look at what you can do with javascript. Or you could take a look at blender. http://www.blender3d.com/ Good luck, -Aaron From ken at alpha2.com Fri Jun 11 14:57:09 2004 From: ken at alpha2.com (Ken Bradford) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:37 2005 Subject: Iptables and portforwarding to an internal webserver. In-Reply-To: <200406111439.26353.rfunk@funknet.net> Message-ID: <00eb01c44fe5$e5d0fbc0$690aa8c0@alpha2.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Funk [mailto:rfunk@funknet.net] > Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 2:39 PM > To: ken@alpha2.com; COLUG > Subject: Re: Iptables and portforwarding to an internal webserver. > > > > Ah yes, that problem. > > SNAT might be able to help here, though I haven't tried it for this > purpose. > > Or you could go back to the DNS solution or the inetd solution Chris > mentioned. > Internal SNAT was the 1st thing that came to mind, but the firewall does vpn and I don't want to open that can of worms. I think the DNS solution is probably easiest, but I want to look at Chris's idea when I get a chance. Thanks. Ken Bradford Alpha II Service, Inc. From ken at alpha2.com Fri Jun 11 15:00:46 2004 From: ken at alpha2.com (Ken Bradford) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:37 2005 Subject: Iptables and portforwarding to an internal webserver. In-Reply-To: <1086957934.2592.55.camel@icestorm.tfcc.com> Message-ID: <00ed01c44fe6$674d2d40$690aa8c0@alpha2.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Fuhrman [mailto:chris.fuhrman@tfcci.com] > Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 8:46 AM > To: ken@alpha2.com > Cc: colug@colg.net > Subject: Re: Iptables and portforwarding to an internal webserver. > > > Howdy, > > I ran into this problem when I was running a webserver behind an > OpenBSD-based firewall. A solution I came across in the OpenBSD FAQ was > the following: > > 1) Set up an entry in /etc/inetd.conf like this: > > 127.0.0.1:5000 stream tcp nowait nobody /usr/bin/nc nc -w \ > 20 192.168.1.10 80 > > This sets up a listener on localhost port 5000 that will > automatically redirect to 192.168.1.10's web server. Note that > nc (netcat) doesn't seem to be included with Fedora. There are RPMs > available via http://rpm.pbone.net > > If you're using xinetd, create the appropriate file in /etc/xinetd.d/ > > 2) Set up an iptables entry to redirect all traffic bound from your > internal ip address space to your OUTSIDE web server's IP address > and have it redirect to your firewall's internal port 5000. > > Unfortunately, I'm not up on my iptable-ese so I'm not certain of the > exact syntax. Perhaps something like this: > > $IPT -A FORWARD -p TCP -i ${INTERNAL_INTERFACE} -d ${NET} -dport 80 \ > --to 127.0.0.1:5000 > > Restart inetd/xinetd and iptables and give it a whirl. > > Cheers! > I'm not sure if that gets around my problem or not (see my reply ro Rob's reply) but I dl'd an rpm and I'm going to check it out. Thanks. Ken Bradford Alpha II Service, Inc. From rfunk at funknet.net Fri Jun 11 15:45:14 2004 From: rfunk at funknet.net (Rob Funk) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:37 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Iptables and portforwarding to an internal webserver.] In-Reply-To: <1086972994.2592.58.camel@icestorm.tfcc.com> References: <1086972994.2592.58.camel@icestorm.tfcc.com> Message-ID: <200406111545.14069.rfunk@funknet.net> Besides Chris's suggestion of inetd/nc, a possibly more straightforward way of doing the same thing is to use rinetd. -- ==============================| "A microscope locked in on one point Rob Funk |Never sees what kind of room that it's in" http://www.funknet.net/rfunk | -- Chris Mars, "Stuck in Rewind" From jep200404 at columbus.rr.com Fri Jun 11 16:14:47 2004 From: jep200404 at columbus.rr.com (Jim) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:37 2005 Subject: Flash creation programs? In-Reply-To: <40C9E022.5010608@osu.edu> References: <40C9E022.5010608@osu.edu> Message-ID: <20040611161447.651a1dbc.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> Steve Lefevre wrote: > Are there Flash content creation applications that are FOSS? http://www.openoffice.org/dev_docs/features/1.1/ Of course, be careful how you use Flash. Use of Flash as just another way to spam is uncool. From friedman at vonfriedman.com Fri Jun 11 23:36:13 2004 From: friedman at vonfriedman.com (Frank E. Friedman) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:37 2005 Subject: SUSE 9..1 on an Armada m700 Message-ID: <20040612022940.M22077@wowway.com> Two things: the first is a request. Is it possible to add the [COLUG] to the subject line? I have a filter setup to move all COLUG related emails to a specific folder. Since the email list or server was rebuilt (or whatever happened), the [COLUG] in the subject line has not occured. The second: I am trying to install SUSE 9.1 Personal (via the internet) on a Compaq Armada m700. The Graphics card is a ATI Rage P/M Mobility AGP 2x. The problem is that the display (which is set to 1024x768) has a horizontal "dead zone" (for lack of a better word or phrase) across the upper portion of the screen. The dead zone is approximately 3/4-inch thick. I cannot move my mouse or any windows across this dead zone. Here is the best way to describe what I am seeing: 1 - take a photograph that is approximate the size of a monitor. 2 - Take a pair of sissors and make a horizontal cut across the top of the picture (two to three inches from the top). 3 - Right now, you have two pieces of the picture, which when next to each other, you have a nice photograph. Now, seperate each piece of the photograph from eachother by 3/4 of an inch. That 3/4 of an inch seperating each piece of the photograph is my dead zone. Has anyone come across something like this before? ANy ideas on how to fix it? thanks in advance for any help/suggestions/advice. Frank -- Frank E. Friedman friedman@vonfriedman.com It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. ? Charles Darwin From dmaxwell at columbus.rr.com Fri Jun 11 23:04:03 2004 From: dmaxwell at columbus.rr.com (Dave Maxwell) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:37 2005 Subject: SUSE 9..1 on an Armada m700 In-Reply-To: <20040612022940.M22077@wowway.com> References: <20040612022940.M22077@wowway.com> Message-ID: <200406112304.03432.dmaxwell@columbus.rr.com> On Friday 11 June 2004 11:36 pm, Frank E. Friedman wrote: > Two things: > > the first is a request. Is it possible to add the [COLUG] to the subject > line? I have a filter setup to move all COLUG related emails to a specific > folder. Since the email list or server was rebuilt (or whatever happened), > the [COLUG] in the subject line has not occured. > The following Kmail rule works for me: Match any of the following To colug CC colug Action: File into folder COLUG x Stop Processing on this rule x Apply to incoming x Apply on manual filtering Cheers, Dave From eliddle at ameritech.net Fri Jun 11 23:44:59 2004 From: eliddle at ameritech.net (Ed Liddle) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:37 2005 Subject: SUSE 9..1 on an Armada m700 In-Reply-To: <20040612022940.M22077@wowway.com> References: <20040612022940.M22077@wowway.com> Message-ID: <1087011899.4327.7.camel@linux.local> I installed suse 9 on my hp omnibook 6000 and have encountered the same problem. I found a way around it by turning the lcd screen off and then back on via the Fn key and on my laptop the F5 key that has a monitor symbol on it. I hope this helps. I have not tried to find a fix for it due to lack of time. I did how ever previously installed suse 8.2 on the same laptop and did not have this problem. -- Ed Liddle Got Linux? On Fri, 2004-06-11 at 23:36, Frank E. Friedman wrote: > Here is the best way to describe what I am seeing: > 1 - take a photograph that is approximate the size of a monitor. > 2 - Take a pair of sissors and make a horizontal cut across the top of the > picture (two to three inches from the top). > 3 - Right now, you have two pieces of the picture, which when next to each > other, you have a nice photograph. Now, seperate each piece of the photograph > from eachother by 3/4 of an inch. That 3/4 of an inch seperating each piece > of the photograph is my dead zone. > > Has anyone come across something like this before? ANy ideas on how to fix > it? thanks in advance for any help/suggestions/advice. > > > The second: > I am trying to install SUSE 9.1 Personal (via the internet) on a Compaq Armada > m700. The Graphics card is a ATI Rage P/M Mobility AGP 2x. The problem is > that the display (which is set to 1024x768) has a horizontal "dead zone" (for > lack of a better word or phrase) across the upper portion of the screen. The > dead zone is approximately 3/4-inch thick. I cannot move my mouse or any > windows across this dead zone. > > Frank > > > -- > Frank E. Friedman > friedman@vonfriedman.com > > It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most > intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. > Charles Darwin > > _______________________________________________ > colug mailing list > colug@colug.net > http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug From tom at functionalmedia.com Sun Jun 13 23:17:49 2004 From: tom at functionalmedia.com (tom hanlon) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:37 2005 Subject: Flash creation programs? In-Reply-To: <40C9E022.5010608@osu.edu> Message-ID: <69F3C728-BDB1-11D8-97EF-00039317745E@functionalmedia.com> > Hey folks - > > I'm interested in playing around with some Flash animations. Of > course, I don't want any proprietary software. Are there Flash content > creation applications that are FOSS? > > I believe that php had some tools for generating flash files. Take a look at php.net. I found that tackling the generation of flash files from outside of the flash toolbox was a pain. In particular getting a mental picture of what goes on in the flash player was a bit of a mental workout. A good book on actionscript helps, the colin mook (?) O'reilly book is pretty good. Find a good tutorial that explains the playhead and the timeline and stack that flash operates with and you may be able to decipher the OS tools to generate SWF files. Look into SWISH ?? I believe it is a tool to animate text. I believe it operates outside of flash. Open source stuff... SVG might be a good way to go. SVG is an xml specification for vector graphics an animation that work through a browser plugin. KDE's killustrator writes SVG format. Not completely open but.. JAVA, I think it is time to take a look at JAVA applets in the browser. Certainly can be built with free or open source tools. I believe that the conflict between SUN and MS has left the version of JAVA in most browser to have the clunky graphic tools, pre-swing ?? I am not a JAVA coder so I leave the details to the experts but I recall something about that issue. The 90% market share of flash as a plugin make it hard to resist, the decent money paid for flash developers is also hard to resist. The proprietary nature of the whole system is hard to endure. I presented a MySQL presentation at an athens OH based Macromedia conference. I found myself wanting to ask tough/rude/exposing questions to the macromedia reps all day long but I figured that nobody else there would get my point, so I kept quiet. It was a Macromedia conference after all, I was just there to show them that you can use php/mysql to get data to your flash apps. Flash has certainly gained a proprietary hold on the media/animation sector of the web, some of the flash tools are very cool and very useful, the forms stuff looked pretty nice, nested/linked and interactive dropdowns are nice also. FLASH and XML seems rather promising also. The combination of javascript/css/html that it takes to emulate what flash has is a real pain sometimes. This is a real problem and a continued threat to the use of web standards. Buying software to build your website is annoying but even more annoying is the risk that macromedia can pull the rug out from under you at any moment, forcing you to upgrade or breaking your applications. I have always hoped that the OS nature of the internet and the WWW would be the foothold that allowed for the spreading of Open Source. To some extent this has happened. In a certain sense FLASH is the trojan horse of proprietary software that may allow the opposite to happen. Instead of the web helping to make all software open, flash may help to make the web more closed. Best of luck in your endeavor. If your goal remains to write flash animations outside of FLASH then I advise you to experiment with using the flash tools first and the tutorials in particular before you try OS tools. Perhaps Macromedia has a 30 day trial. The last time I tried to do what you are about to try to do it was difficult. Perhaps some OS tools have come along since then, or perhaps you have experience with something analogous to the flash player that will make it easier for you. -- Tom From jep200404 at columbus.rr.com Mon Jun 14 09:42:35 2004 From: jep200404 at columbus.rr.com (Jim) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:37 2005 Subject: [COLUG] What good uses for Flash are there? In-Reply-To: <69F3C728-BDB1-11D8-97EF-00039317745E@functionalmedia.com> References: <40C9E022.5010608@osu.edu> <69F3C728-BDB1-11D8-97EF-00039317745E@functionalmedia.com> Message-ID: <20040614094235.2348afaa.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> What good uses for Flash are there? The biggest use I see for Flash is for annoying animated images, like animated GIFs, but one can not disable Flash animation, so Flash is even worse than GIFs. The next biggest use I see for Flash is for little movies about products. Unfortunately, one can not jump back and forth within the presentations. One has to start at the beginning and suffer through all the drivel to get to some crumb of info. The best use I've seen for Flash was for satirical cartoons. The content was significant, although one still had little control over watching it. MPEG would have been better. From debateable at ameritech.net Mon Jun 14 10:00:05 2004 From: debateable at ameritech.net (Jason Carr) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:37 2005 Subject: [COLUG] What good uses for Flash are there? In-Reply-To: <20040614094235.2348afaa.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> References: <40C9E022.5010608@osu.edu> <69F3C728-BDB1-11D8-97EF-00039317745E@functionalmedia.com> <20040614094235.2348afaa.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> Message-ID: <40CDAF65.1000205@ameritech.net> Creating Websites. I think that I have seen more websites in Flash than HTML recently...or PHP...or Javascript...It seems to be taking over, I don't like that. Jim wrote: >What good uses for Flash are there? > >The biggest use I see for Flash is for annoying animated images, >like animated GIFs, but one can not disable Flash animation, >so Flash is even worse than GIFs. > >The next biggest use I see for Flash is for little movies >about products. Unfortunately, one can not jump back and >forth within the presentations. One has to start at the >beginning and suffer through all the drivel to get to some >crumb of info. > >The best use I've seen for Flash was for satirical cartoons. >The content was significant, although one still had little >control over watching it. MPEG would have been better. > >_______________________________________________ >colug mailing list >colug@colug.net >http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug > > > From ken at alpha2.com Mon Jun 14 10:42:20 2004 From: ken at alpha2.com (Ken Bradford) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:37 2005 Subject: Iptables and portforwarding to an internal webserver. In-Reply-To: <00ed01c44fe6$674d2d40$690aa8c0@alpha2.com> Message-ID: <019e01c4521d$cc432c20$690aa8c0@alpha2.com> Thanks to everyone who offered help and advice. I worked out a solution after thinking about Rob's SNAT suggetion some more. It turned out to be rather straight forward and, I thought, elegant in it's simplicity. And since we're only dealing with ports 80 & 443, it shouldn't impact their vpn. Just 2 additional lines of code using POSTROUTING and SNAT. $IP is the external IP address and by not specifing a new port the original source port is retained: $IPT -A FORWARD -p TCP -d 192.168.20.5 --dport 80 -j ACCEPT $IPT -A PREROUTING -t nat -p TCP -d $NET --dport 80 -j DNAT --to 192.168.20.5:80 $IPT -A POSTROUTING -t nat -p TCP -d $INNET --dport 80 -j SNAT --to-source $IP $IPT -A FORWARD -p TCP -d 192.168.20.5 --dport 443 -j ACCEPT $IPT -A PREROUTING -t nat -p TCP -d $NET --dport 443 -j DNAT --to 192.168.20.5:443 $IPT -A POSTROUTING -t nat -p TCP -d $INNET --dport 443 -j SNAT --to-source $IP Ken Bradford Alpha II Service, Inc. From adwyer at io.com Mon Jun 14 14:09:07 2004 From: adwyer at io.com (Andy Ingraham Dwyer) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:37 2005 Subject: [COLUG] What good uses for Flash are there? In-Reply-To: <200406141600.i5EG03Pb017325@stones.wcbe.org> Message-ID: Jim wrote: > The biggest use I see for Flash is for annoying animated images, > like animated GIFs, but one can not disable Flash animation, > so Flash is even worse than GIFs. I find FlashBlock http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ and PrefBar http://prefbar.mozdev.org/ both for Mozilla, to be useful in seizing control of the flash viewing experience. FlashBlock loads a place-holder that you can click on if you want to actually load the flash in the first place. PrefBar (among its other features) lets you kill all flash on the currently viewed page/tab. > The best use I've seen for Flash was for satirical cartoons. > The content was significant, although one still had little > control over watching it. MPEG would have been better. For a terrific example of Flash cartoons that are have enough interactivity to justify its use over MPEG, see: http://www.homestarrunner.com/ -Andy -- Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change to take effect. From tom at functionalmedia.com Mon Jun 14 15:23:45 2004 From: tom at functionalmedia.com (tom hanlon) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:38 2005 Subject: [COLUG] What good uses for Flash are there? In-Reply-To: <20040614094235.2348afaa.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> Message-ID: <5AC7D65E-BE38-11D8-97EF-00039317745E@functionalmedia.com> On Monday, June 14, 2004, at 09:42 AM, Jim wrote: > What good uses for Flash are there? > > I agree that most uses of flash are for junk. But then again most uses of html is junk, as is most uses of gif/jpg/mov/wmp/mp3 . Good use of flash: *note* This is not a commercial for Flash. I do not use Flash. I own a copy of Dreamweaver MX and have explored the use of Flash. The proprietary nature of Flash and the market share that it has gives me evil visions of MS office and the control of the Desktop, YUCK !!. I do not want the web to become proprietary. With that said there are some good uses. Hiding the limitations of http. http is stateless so a complicated web application involves a lot of back and forth requests to the browser. A complicated app can "break" the browsers "back" button or multiple clicks on the reload button can lead to multiple requests that have unintended results, multiple orders or entries in a DB. The flash player can allow for multiple requests to the server to occur in the background. One instance of the player running in one web page request and multiple updates of data or requests for data happening in the background. Overcoming the limitations of html. html forms allow for user input. Contextual menus would be nice. A nested drop down box is easier in flash than it is in html. Populating nested or related form elements such as select boxes and radio buttons from a data array is easier in flash than in html. XML manipulation. I did not get too far in my flash xml application but it seemed like there was potential to do some stuff that would otherwise be difficult in html/css/javascript. Such as loading an xml file into the flash player, allowing multiple edits and then uploading at the end of the edit process. Getting paid more $$. Perhaps not a "better use" per se but sometimes the market drives us to do things that we do not particular enjoy or agree with. Flash is one of those examples. Windows is the other one. Flash has some popularity and the price for php/mysql/html experts is declining. Having Flash expertise can help a computer nerd pay some bills. Overcoming browser incompatibilities. Different browsers behave differently. I keep 2 or 3 browsers available on my Macintosh so that I can see "broken" websites in a "non-broken" state. The flash player claims to have 90% market penetration and a flash app runs the same on all platforms, linux, MS, MAC etc. Interactive content: I took an online diversity awareness training class that was written in Flash. An equivalent application in html would be difficult to generate. Basically I viewed some video, answered some questions, verified my identity and took a quiz. The Flash player allowed for control of this process and simplified the creation of it and the use of it. If someone asked me to build an equivalent application I would be hard pressed to recommend a javascript/css or other solution because it would be more costly to implement. Options: Sure some of this stuff can be done with Javascript, CSS, layers, and the like. The javascript/css solution can be time consuming to code and once again browser compatibility issues will arise. Please do not let this thread lead into a javascript/CSS vs Flash flame war. Doing this stuff in Javascript/CSS is hard work, giving your soul to a proprietary tool can be an equally hard choice. Make your own decisions. Please post information and not opinions. Some libraries do exist to help with the open source javascript/php solutions for nested dropdown menues, phpclasses.org has some. Solutions: The open source community should perhaps develop a browser plugin that is free and open and that solves the same problems that Flash solves. Flash can have the goofy annoying animation market as far as I am concerned but something like a hidden app that can retrieve http requests in the background and make the results available to javascript in the foreground would be very nice. A good pdf style form plugin that allows for context based menus would be nice. A "state manager" tool that allows for submitions to happen in the background or for storage of information until the end of the transaction would be nice. Anything that hides that annoying and constant back-and-forth between the browser and the server. Tom From frank_rieder at bankone.com Mon Jun 14 15:45:35 2004 From: frank_rieder at bankone.com (frank_rieder@bankone.com) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:38 2005 Subject: [COLUG] What good uses for Flash are there? Message-ID: I wonder? Virii: http://www.pcplus.co.uk/news/default.asp?pagetypeid=2&articleid=5404&subsectionid=360 Sorry I couldn't help it. Off topic: It also makes me uneasy that after reloading Windows 2000 on my fiances' computer last night, Sasser got me before the updates could be downloaded. Shows me there are others out there that STILL have not updated their computers. Frank Rieder Operations Specialist Banc One Leasing Corporation Mail code OH1-1085 Phone: 614-213-4591 Fax: 614-213-2083 toll-free 800-879-7184 ext. 34591 Email : Frank Rieder@Bankone.com tom hanlon @colug.net on 06/14/2004 03:23:45 PM Sent by: colug-bounces@colug.net To: colug@colug.net cc: Subject: Re: [COLUG] What good uses for Flash are there? On Monday, June 14, 2004, at 09:42 AM, Jim wrote: > What good uses for Flash are there? > > I agree that most uses of flash are for junk. But then again most uses of html is junk, as is most uses of gif/jpg/mov/wmp/mp3 . Good use of flash: *note* This is not a commercial for Flash. I do not use Flash. I own a copy of Dreamweaver MX and have explored the use of Flash. The proprietary nature of Flash and the market share that it has gives me evil visions of MS office and the control of the Desktop, YUCK !!. I do not want the web to become proprietary. With that said there are some good uses. Hiding the limitations of http. http is stateless so a complicated web application involves a lot of back and forth requests to the browser. A complicated app can "break" the browsers "back" button or multiple clicks on the reload button can lead to multiple requests that have unintended results, multiple orders or entries in a DB. The flash player can allow for multiple requests to the server to occur in the background. One instance of the player running in one web page request and multiple updates of data or requests for data happening in the background. Overcoming the limitations of html. html forms allow for user input. Contextual menus would be nice. A nested drop down box is easier in flash than it is in html. Populating nested or related form elements such as select boxes and radio buttons from a data array is easier in flash than in html. XML manipulation. I did not get too far in my flash xml application but it seemed like there was potential to do some stuff that would otherwise be difficult in html/css/javascript. Such as loading an xml file into the flash player, allowing multiple edits and then uploading at the end of the edit process. Getting paid more $$. Perhaps not a "better use" per se but sometimes the market drives us to do things that we do not particular enjoy or agree with. Flash is one of those examples. Windows is the other one. Flash has some popularity and the price for php/mysql/html experts is declining. Having Flash expertise can help a computer nerd pay some bills. Overcoming browser incompatibilities. Different browsers behave differently. I keep 2 or 3 browsers available on my Macintosh so that I can see "broken" websites in a "non-broken" state. The flash player claims to have 90% market penetration and a flash app runs the same on all platforms, linux, MS, MAC etc. Interactive content: I took an online diversity awareness training class that was written in Flash. An equivalent application in html would be difficult to generate. Basically I viewed some video, answered some questions, verified my identity and took a quiz. The Flash player allowed for control of this process and simplified the creation of it and the use of it. If someone asked me to build an equivalent application I would be hard pressed to recommend a javascript/css or other solution because it would be more costly to implement. Options: Sure some of this stuff can be done with Javascript, CSS, layers, and the like. The javascript/css solution can be time consuming to code and once again browser compatibility issues will arise. Please do not let this thread lead into a javascript/CSS vs Flash flame war. Doing this stuff in Javascript/CSS is hard work, giving your soul to a proprietary tool can be an equally hard choice. Make your own decisions. Please post information and not opinions. Some libraries do exist to help with the open source javascript/php solutions for nested dropdown menues, phpclasses.org has some. Solutions: The open source community should perhaps develop a browser plugin that is free and open and that solves the same problems that Flash solves. Flash can have the goofy annoying animation market as far as I am concerned but something like a hidden app that can retrieve http requests in the background and make the results available to javascript in the foreground would be very nice. A good pdf style form plugin that allows for context based menus would be nice. A "state manager" tool that allows for submitions to happen in the background or for storage of information until the end of the transaction would be nice. Anything that hides that annoying and constant back-and-forth between the browser and the server. Tom _______________________________________________ colug mailing list colug@colug.net http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. From bob at disclosed.org Mon Jun 14 20:27:36 2004 From: bob at disclosed.org (Robert Jewell) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:38 2005 Subject: [COLUG] What good uses for Flash are there? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040615002736.GA12497@disclosed.org> On Mon, Jun 14, 2004 at 03:45:35PM -0400, frank_rieder@bankone.com wrote: > I wonder? Virii: > > http://www.pcplus.co.uk/news/default.asp?pagetypeid=2&articleid=5404&subsectionid=360 > > Sorry I couldn't help it. > > Off topic: It also makes me uneasy that after reloading Windows 2000 on my > fiances' computer last night, Sasser got me before the updates could be > downloaded. Shows me there are others out there that STILL have not > updated their computers. I just terminated my night-job doing DSL tech support. It was not uncommon that I'd help someone set up their 2k or XP machine for dsl and they'd get sasser while still on the phone with me. Unforuntately, due to the job's support restrictions, I couldn't prevent this, or help fix it. "It's Microsoft's problem".. poor people.. .. one of the many reasons I quit. There are a LOT of people that haven't done the updates. a surprising number of people who see that their computer doesn't work right anymore, and leave it infected and spreading disease for a month before they even try to get it fixed. -- bob> From jep200404 at columbus.rr.com Mon Jun 14 20:30:33 2004 From: jep200404 at columbus.rr.com (Jim) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:38 2005 Subject: [COLUG] What good uses for Flash are there? In-Reply-To: <40CDAF65.1000205@ameritech.net> References: <40C9E022.5010608@osu.edu> <69F3C728-BDB1-11D8-97EF-00039317745E@functionalmedia.com> <20040614094235.2348afaa.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> <40CDAF65.1000205@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <20040614203033.4cb8885a.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> Jason Carr wrote: > Creating Websites. I think that I have seen more websites in Flash Is there such a thing as Flash without animation? From skippy at skippy.net Tue Jun 15 10:09:54 2004 From: skippy at skippy.net (Scott Merrill) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:38 2005 Subject: June meeting Message-ID: <35300.216.136.35.122.1087308594.squirrel@www.skippy.net> We're confirmed for OCSEA for the June meeting (thanks, OCSEA!). Does anyone have a presentation they'd like to share? Are there any presentation suggestions? From jim at rossberry.com Tue Jun 15 12:15:05 2004 From: jim at rossberry.com (Jim Wildman) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:38 2005 Subject: June meeting In-Reply-To: <35300.216.136.35.122.1087308594.squirrel@www.skippy.net> References: <35300.216.136.35.122.1087308594.squirrel@www.skippy.net> Message-ID: How about using cvs to manage configuration files? When is the meeting? On Tue, 15 Jun 2004, Scott Merrill wrote: > We're confirmed for OCSEA for the June meeting (thanks, OCSEA!). > > Does anyone have a presentation they'd like to share? > Are there any presentation suggestions? > _______________________________________________ > colug mailing list > colug@colug.net > http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jim Wildman, CISSP, RHCE jim@rossberry.com http://www.rossberry.com "Our political way of life is by the laws of nature, of nature's God, and of course presupposes the existence of God, the moral ruler of the universe, and a rule of right and wrong, of just and unjust, binding upon man, preceding all institutions of human society and government." John Quincy Adamns From colug at jmglov.net Tue Jun 15 12:28:31 2004 From: colug at jmglov.net (Josh Glover) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:38 2005 Subject: June meeting In-Reply-To: References: <35300.216.136.35.122.1087308594.squirrel@www.skippy.net> Message-ID: <3924.24.123.50.150.1087316911.squirrel@24.123.50.150> Quoth Jim Wildman: > How about using cvs to manage configuration files? Are you volunteering, or requesting? If you are volunteering, I could follow this up with a presentation on using CVS to manage a software project, along with a demo of some Open Source tools I have written. If you are requesting, I would be happy to do a presentation on using CVS, which would include both. Cheers, Josh -- Josh Glover GPG keyID 0xDE8A3103 (C3E4 FA9E 1E07 BBDB 6D8B 07AB 2BF1 67A1 DE8A 3103) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys DE8A3103 From skippy at skippy.net Tue Jun 15 12:44:46 2004 From: skippy at skippy.net (Scott Merrill) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:38 2005 Subject: June meeting In-Reply-To: References: <35300.216.136.35.122.1087308594.squirrel@www.skippy.net> Message-ID: <35897.216.136.35.122.1087317886.squirrel@www.skippy.net> Jim Wildman said: > How about using cvs to manage configuration files? I'll repeat Josh's question: are you suggesting or volunteering? =) > When is the meeting? Saturday, June 26 from 1 to 3 PM: http://www.colug.net/meetings.php From tom at functionalmedia.com Tue Jun 15 13:52:52 2004 From: tom at functionalmedia.com (tom hanlon) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:38 2005 Subject: [COLUG] What good uses for Flash are there? In-Reply-To: <20040614203033.4cb8885a.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> Message-ID: On Monday, June 14, 2004, at 08:30 PM, Jim wrote: > Jason Carr wrote: > >> Creating Websites. I think that I have seen more websites in Flash > > Is there such a thing as Flash without animation? > Yes, that is the part that is perhaps useful and informative. Animation is good for games and "art" or whatever. There is more to Flash than that. Once again, although I sound like I am defending Flash this is only partially true. Flash is part of a proprietary tightly controlled commercial enterprise. What is good for Macromedia is not necessarily good for the WWW. Tom From josh at bitbuckets.com Tue Jun 15 14:37:30 2004 From: josh at bitbuckets.com (Joshua Kramer) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:38 2005 Subject: [COLUG] What good uses for Flash are there? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jun 2004, tom hanlon wrote: > > Is there such a thing as Flash without animation? The Ohio Highway patrol's website has a menu syste that's in flash. http://statepatrol.ohio.gov/ It's a bad use of flash - you could do JavaScript or a simple GIF for the same effect. --Josh From rjewell at gmail.com Tue Jun 15 14:10:23 2004 From: rjewell at gmail.com (Robert Jewell) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:38 2005 Subject: June meeting In-Reply-To: <3924.24.123.50.150.1087316911.squirrel@24.123.50.150> References: <35300.216.136.35.122.1087308594.squirrel@www.skippy.net> <3924.24.123.50.150.1087316911.squirrel@24.123.50.150> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 12:28:31 -0400 (EDT), Josh Glover wrote: > > Quoth Jim Wildman: > > > How about using cvs to manage configuration files? > > Are you volunteering, or requesting? If you are volunteering, I could follow > this up with a presentation on using CVS to manage a software project, along > with a demo of some Open Source tools I have written. If you are requesting, I > would be happy to do a presentation on using CVS, which would include both. > > Cheers, > Josh > > -- > Josh Glover > > GPG keyID 0xDE8A3103 (C3E4 FA9E 1E07 BBDB 6D8B 07AB 2BF1 67A1 DE8A 3103) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys DE8A3103 > I enjoy hearing some info on alternatives to CVS (subversion, etc).. maybe just some quick pros&cons from anybody that's exhausted possibilities.. maybe somebody could explain to me what's wrong with CVS that the wheel gets reinvented. (also, i'm testing this gmail account on the mailing list. there was no "reply to list" button, so I just hit "reply" and changed the To: field. I have a feeling that it might not handle the list headers correctly. sorry if this is a thread-kill. [anybody use yahoo or gmail or a web-based client with the list to any success?]) -- bob From rfunk at funknet.net Tue Jun 15 15:10:02 2004 From: rfunk at funknet.net (Rob Funk) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:38 2005 Subject: June meeting In-Reply-To: References: <35300.216.136.35.122.1087308594.squirrel@www.skippy.net> <3924.24.123.50.150.1087316911.squirrel@24.123.50.150> Message-ID: <200406151510.02869.rfunk@funknet.net> Robert Jewell wrote: > I enjoy hearing some info on alternatives to CVS (subversion, etc).. > maybe just some quick pros&cons from anybody that's exhausted > possibilities.. maybe somebody could explain to me what's wrong with > CVS that the wheel gets reinvented. Anyone who's used CVS for any length of time should be familiar with its disadvantages. 1. Renaming or moving files while preserving their revision history is cumbersome at best 2. Tracking simultaneous changes to multiple files requires careful attention to tagging. 3. Branching and merging are painful 4. Centralized repository is problematic for certain development methods Subversion is intended to be a direct replacement for CVS, addressing its biggest shortcomings without changing the basic model. It addresses the first two issues and I think the third to a lesser extent. (I haven't used Subversion enough to see how well it does there.) Oh yeah, I understand that CVS's own code is barely maintained anymore. One disadvantage I've found to subversion in my short time working with it is that its database seems to get too easily corrupted. It's easy to recover, but it's still an annoyance. CVS's textual repository doesn't get corrupted. There are others, such as arch and bitkeeper, that take a decentralized approach. Each developer has their own copy of the full tree, and there is no server repository; the maintainer just keeps a master tree. That means everyone has their own branch, and merges happen constantly. Some people swear by this, others hate it, and still others don't see the big deal. I think it all depends on the type of development your project requires. I recently converted the fetchmail revision history over to Subversion. This was an interesting exercise because fetchmail was maintained with RCS. So first I copied the RCS files into a CVS repository, modified them a bit to fit CVS rules on tagging, then I used a cvs2svn program to convert to Subversion. -- ==============================| "A microscope locked in on one point Rob Funk |Never sees what kind of room that it's in" http://www.funknet.net/rfunk | -- Chris Mars, "Stuck in Rewind" From sjs at khadrin.com Tue Jun 15 15:58:54 2004 From: sjs at khadrin.com (Stephen J. Smith) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:38 2005 Subject: CVS (was: june meeting) In-Reply-To: References: <35300.216.136.35.122.1087308594.squirrel@www.skippy.net> <3924.24.123.50.150.1087316911.squirrel@24.123.50.150> Message-ID: <1087329534.2126.37.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> On Tue, 2004-06-15 at 14:10, Robert Jewell wrote: > I enjoy hearing some info on alternatives to CVS (subversion, etc).. > maybe just some quick pros&cons from anybody that's exhausted > possibilities.. maybe somebody could explain to me what's wrong with > CVS that the wheel gets reinvented. Some CVS deficiencies: - Checkins aren't atomic - Moving/renaming files (and tracking moves/renames) is a PITA - Doesn't version directories - Doesn't handle binary files very well Some links you might find useful: Version Control System Comparison - Compares CVS, Aegis, Arch, BitKeeper, CMSSynergy, Co-Op, Monotone, OpenCM, Perforce, Subversion, svk, Vesta, and Visual Sourcesafe. http://better-scm.berlios.de/comparison/comparison.html Version Control UNIX configuration files - Describes two different methods, using Oracle configuration files and /etc as examples. http://www.piskorski.com/docs/cvs-unix.html CVS homedir - Linux Journal article that describes how the author uses CVS for his entire home directory. http://linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=5976 -- Stephen J. Smith | sjs@khadrin.com | http://khadrin.com/ From jim at rossberry.com Tue Jun 15 20:46:11 2004 From: jim at rossberry.com (Jim Wildman) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:38 2005 Subject: June meeting In-Reply-To: <35897.216.136.35.122.1087317886.squirrel@www.skippy.net> References: <35300.216.136.35.122.1087308594.squirrel@www.skippy.net> <35897.216.136.35.122.1087317886.squirrel@www.skippy.net> Message-ID: I was offering, but I cannot guarantee that I will be able to make it. I should know by Thursday if I can make it on Saturday. On Tue, 15 Jun 2004, Scott Merrill wrote: > Jim Wildman said: > > How about using cvs to manage configuration files? > > I'll repeat Josh's question: are you suggesting or volunteering? =) > > > When is the meeting? > > Saturday, June 26 from 1 to 3 PM: > http://www.colug.net/meetings.php > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jim Wildman, CISSP, RHCE jim@rossberry.com http://www.rossberry.com "Our political way of life is by the laws of nature, of nature's God, and of course presupposes the existence of God, the moral ruler of the universe, and a rule of right and wrong, of just and unjust, binding upon man, preceding all institutions of human society and government." John Quincy Adamns From rjewell at gmail.com Wed Jun 16 00:42:17 2004 From: rjewell at gmail.com (Robert Jewell) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:38 2005 Subject: OT, sorry: Email to SMS Message-ID: This isn't Linux related, but a lot of you geeks will want to use Linux to take advantage of this.. I ran into http://www.weblinkwireless.com/customerservice/how2send/#2way2e-mail today. it's a chart of email addresses for various cell carriers. They are basically SMS gateways. You send an email to phonenumber@tmomail.net and a few seconds later, your t-mobile cellphone buzzes with a New SMS. The only costs are your normal SMS receiving fees, if you have any. Lots of potential uses.. Server warning messages and alerts, etc. I'm adding a form to my webpage that sends a mail from my server to my cell (a "send a message to my cellphone" link). Somewhat related: If you have USBank, they recently added an "alerts" feature. (Send me a notification if xyz happens, xyz being anything like "withdraw from account over a certain amount"). These alerts can be sent to an email address, or optionally can be specially formatted for SMS, and sent to an SMS gateway email address. (phonenumber@tmomail.net, etc) Also somewhat related: This works in GAIM, and most current AOL instant messenger clients. if you send an IM to +1phonenumber, aim sends it as an SMS, which can be replied to (the reply gets sent as an AIM message to the appropriate screenname). -- bob From mwmiller at columbus.rr.com Wed Jun 16 04:32:42 2004 From: mwmiller at columbus.rr.com (Matthew W. Miller) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:38 2005 Subject: Gmail (was: Re: June meeting) In-Reply-To: References: <35300.216.136.35.122.1087308594.squirrel@www.skippy.net> <3924.24.123.50.150.1087316911.squirrel@24.123.50.150> Message-ID: <20040616083242.GB16088@columbus.rr.com> On Tue, Jun 15, 2004 at 02:10:23PM -0400, Robert Jewell wrote: >i'm testing this gmail account on the mailing list. there was no >"reply to list" button, so I just hit "reply" and changed the To: >field. I have a feeling that it might not handle the list headers >correctly. sorry if this is a thread-kill. Looks OK from here (mutt 1.4.2.1i). -- Matthew W. Miller MPlayer does not suck. From rjewell at gmail.com Wed Jun 16 06:20:48 2004 From: rjewell at gmail.com (Robert Jewell) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:38 2005 Subject: Gmail (was: Re: June meeting) In-Reply-To: <20040616083242.GB16088@columbus.rr.com> References: <35300.216.136.35.122.1087308594.squirrel@www.skippy.net> <3924.24.123.50.150.1087316911.squirrel@24.123.50.150> <20040616083242.GB16088@columbus.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 04:32:42 -0400, Matthew W. Miller wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 15, 2004 at 02:10:23PM -0400, Robert Jewell wrote: > >i'm testing this gmail account on the mailing list. there was no > Looks OK from here (mutt 1.4.2.1i). excellent. I'm pretty pleased with gmail. it's not exactly ideal for a high-traffic mailing list, though. -- Robert Jewell From colug at jmglov.net Wed Jun 16 07:59:45 2004 From: colug at jmglov.net (Josh Glover) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:38 2005 Subject: June meeting In-Reply-To: References: <35300.216.136.35.122.1087308594.squirrel@www.skippy.net> <35897.216.136.35.122.1087317886.squirrel@www.skippy.net> Message-ID: <20040616115945.GA22918%jmglov@jmglov.net> Quoth Jim Wildman (Tue 2004-06-15 08:46:11PM -0400): > I was offering, but I cannot guarantee that I will be able to make it. I > should know by Thursday if I can make it on Saturday. Jim, If you can make it, what do you say we coordinate a bit? I was planning to whip up a presentation using OOo's presentation component. Is that cool with you? -- Josh Glover Gentoo Developer (http://dev.gentoo.org/~jmglov/) Tokyo Linux Users Group Listmaster (http://www.tlug.jp/) GPG keyID 0xDE8A3103 (C3E4 FA9E 1E07 BBDB 6D8B 07AB 2BF1 67A1 DE8A 3103) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys DE8A3103 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.colug.net/pipermail/colug/attachments/20040616/3f91be7c/attachment.bin From rjewell at gmail.com Thu Jun 17 15:41:56 2004 From: rjewell at gmail.com (Robert Jewell) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:39 2005 Subject: Gmail (was: Re: June meeting) In-Reply-To: <1087483487.5339.9.camel@amon> References: <35300.216.136.35.122.1087308594.squirrel@www.skippy.net> <3924.24.123.50.150.1087316911.squirrel@24.123.50.150> <20040616083242.GB16088@columbus.rr.com> <1087483487.5339.9.camel@amon> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:49:40 +0200, Patrick Blitz wrote: > > Whats gmail? > is that that google service that is forbidden over here? > > > On Wed, 2004-06-16 at 12:20, Robert Jewell wrote: > > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 04:32:42 -0400, Matthew W. Miller > > wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 15, 2004 at 02:10:23PM -0400, Robert Jewell wrote: > > > >i'm testing this gmail account on the mailing list. there was no > > > Looks OK from here (mutt 1.4.2.1i). > > > > excellent. I'm pretty pleased with gmail. it's not exactly ideal for > > a high-traffic mailing list, though. forbidden over here? it's google mail, not public yet. invite-only beta. (though, they've basically opened the floodgates on the invite service.. users can invite 2 or 3 people every week or so.. so it's propgating fast.) -- Robert Jewell From lefevre.10 at osu.edu Fri Jun 18 12:00:07 2004 From: lefevre.10 at osu.edu (Steve Lefevre) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:39 2005 Subject: Raid rebuilding Message-ID: <40D31187.3080203@osu.edu> Hey folks - Well, it finally happened. The machine housing my beautiful software RAID 5 no longer recognizes the keyboard. I can't get the machine to boot, since it halts on the keyboard error. There are four drives in the machine. The first, on the first IDE channel, is the boot drive, which holds the RH boot drive and the rest of the system. The second IDE channel on the mobo holds the first raid drive, an 80 GB drive. There is an IDE controller card with two channels, each holding one 80 GB drive on the raid. What is my best hope for recovery? My thought is that I can swap out the motherboard, leave the drive ordering the same, and if Tux truly loves me, I will get my raid back. Steve Lefevre From lefevre.10 at osu.edu Fri Jun 18 12:29:07 2004 From: lefevre.10 at osu.edu (Steve Lefevre) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:39 2005 Subject: Raid rebuilding In-Reply-To: <40D3171B.2060303@bugs.osu.edu> References: <40D31187.3080203@osu.edu> <40D3171B.2060303@bugs.osu.edu> Message-ID: <40D31853.2050100@osu.edu> When you say labeling, I take it that is something that is part of the formatting of the disk? I'm not sure if they are labeled or not. Wade Pinkston wrote: > If the hdd are labeled then you should be able to put them back in any > order and point your bios at the proper boot disk. If there not > labeled then put them back in the order they came out and all should > still be just fine. Even if you only put in md0 and md3 and boot it > should still work. until you plug in there mirror matches at that > point the raid should just fire back up and reconcile the drives. I > would plug md1-4 back in in the order they came out. Then fire it up. > As long as the controller card works the raid should have no problems. > > > Steve Lefevre wrote: > >> Hey folks - >> >> Well, it finally happened. The machine housing my beautiful software >> RAID 5 no longer recognizes the keyboard. I can't get the machine to >> boot, since it halts on the keyboard error. >> >> There are four drives in the machine. The first, on the first IDE >> channel, is the boot drive, which holds the RH boot drive and the >> rest of the system. The second IDE channel on the mobo holds the >> first raid drive, an 80 GB drive. There is an IDE controller card >> with two channels, each holding one 80 GB drive on the raid. >> >> What is my best hope for recovery? My thought is that I can swap out >> the motherboard, leave the drive ordering the same, and if Tux truly >> loves me, I will get my raid back. >> >> Steve Lefevre >> _______________________________________________ >> colug mailing list >> colug@colug.net >> http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug > > > > From jhf at rivenstone.net Fri Jun 18 14:02:36 2004 From: jhf at rivenstone.net (Joseph Fannin) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:39 2005 Subject: Raid rebuilding In-Reply-To: <40D31187.3080203@osu.edu> References: <40D31187.3080203@osu.edu> Message-ID: <20040618180236.GA2980@samarkand.rivenstone.net> On Fri, Jun 18, 2004 at 12:00:07PM -0400, Steve Lefevre wrote: > What is my best hope for recovery? My thought is that I can swap out the > motherboard, leave the drive ordering the same, and if Tux truly loves > me, I will get my raid back. Linux software raid is smart enough to handle the drives getting rearranged, if that's your concern. If you set things up to use RAID autostart (or whatever it's called, where the kernel starts the RAID arrays before mounting the root filesystem, rather than using raidstart or whatever from the initscripts) it will Just Work. I still use raidtools, rather than the newer mdadm stuff, but without the kernel autostart you need to edit your /etc/raidtab (or the mdadm equivalent) to kick off the raid array. That said, I'm no genius when it comes to being super-careful with data, so if the smarter and more experienced people on this list contradict me, listen to them. -- Joseph Fannin jhf@rivenstone.net From rjewell at gmail.com Fri Jun 18 22:04:53 2004 From: rjewell at gmail.com (Robert Jewell) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:39 2005 Subject: Gmail (was: Re: June meeting) In-Reply-To: <1087508663.7346.7.camel@amon> References: <35300.216.136.35.122.1087308594.squirrel@www.skippy.net> <3924.24.123.50.150.1087316911.squirrel@24.123.50.150> <20040616083242.GB16088@columbus.rr.com> <1087483487.5339.9.camel@amon> <1087508663.7346.7.camel@amon> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 23:44:23 +0200, Patrick Blitz wrote: > > As soon as it goes Public, > it will be forbbiden in Europe, as far as i know... > privacy matters. > It's against Germna law, i think. > > > On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:49:40 +0200, Patrick Blitz wrote: > > > > > > Whats gmail? > > > is that that google service that is forbidden over here? To sum up the privacy concerns, in case anybody is curious: 1) gmail scans mail and serves textads based on mail content. 2) gmail doesn't delete mail permanently, when you delete it. 1) Any US or European law that forbids this type of behavior is outdated and needs to be changed. When you are reading a mail (this mail, for example) in gmail, gmail scans the text of the mail and, using Adwords, displays relevant text-ads on the side of the screen. I will clarify.. this is a _machine_ scanning the text of the mail, dynamically, to display ads to you, the user of gmail. This is, by no means, a privacy concern for anyone. In fact, it's basically the same thing that anti-virus softwares do.. also, spam filters.. By these laws, Yahoo!Mail breaks these same privacy boundaries, by scanning your mail and guessing what is spam, and placing it in a "Bulk Mail" folder. AOL mail does something similar, I believe. Norton Antivirus does the same thing, but it's done locally, and not by your mail server. Where is the line to be drawn? 2) I read an interview with one of the Google technical leads. He stated that they take regular backups of everything, so when you delete your mail.. it might stlil be on a backup somewhere and not get removed for a couple weeks. These privacy concern claims are completely unfounded. (unless there are additional concerns that I haven't heard about....) -- Robert Jewell Who do you trust? From rfunk at funknet.net Fri Jun 18 22:15:09 2004 From: rfunk at funknet.net (Rob Funk) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:39 2005 Subject: Gmail (was: Re: June meeting) In-Reply-To: References: <35300.216.136.35.122.1087308594.squirrel@www.skippy.net> <1087508663.7346.7.camel@amon> Message-ID: <200406182215.09247.rfunk@funknet.net> Robert Jewell wrote: > 1) Any US or European law that forbids this type of behavior is > outdated and needs to be changed. When you are reading a mail (this > mail, for example) in gmail, gmail scans the text of the mail and, > using Adwords, displays relevant text-ads on the side of the screen. > I will clarify.. this is a _machine_ scanning the text of the mail, > dynamically, to display ads to you, the user of gmail. This is, by no > means, a privacy concern for anyone. In fact, it's basically the same > thing that anti-virus softwares do.. also, spam filters.. This actually leads directly to some problems pointed out in this article... http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/248 Personally I can see both sides, and prefer not to see anyone berated over their view of the situation. TANSTAAFL[1], and I can't blame anyone for wanting to avoid the not-quite-free lunches. [1] There Aint No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. -- ==============================| "A microscope locked in on one point Rob Funk |Never sees what kind of room that it's in" http://www.funknet.net/rfunk | -- Chris Mars, "Stuck in Rewind" From rjewell at gmail.com Fri Jun 18 22:53:10 2004 From: rjewell at gmail.com (Robert Jewell) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:39 2005 Subject: Gmail (was: Re: June meeting) In-Reply-To: <200406182215.09247.rfunk@funknet.net> References: <35300.216.136.35.122.1087308594.squirrel@www.skippy.net> <1087508663.7346.7.camel@amon> <200406182215.09247.rfunk@funknet.net> Message-ID: > This actually leads directly to some problems pointed out in this > article... http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/248 > > Personally I can see both sides, and prefer not to see anyone berated over > their view of the situation. TANSTAAFL[1], and I can't blame anyone for > wanting to avoid the not-quite-free lunches. > > [1] There Aint No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. One of the foci of that article was aimed at debunking the "computers read it, not people" view. I wholeheartedly agree that this is a major fallacy. Additionally, I'd like to make note of one important piece that I left out of my previous message: a possible solution. A "more correct" privacy law would contain stipulations allowing for valid ignorance of the "all party consent" rules. A valid use would be one where party A invokes third party scanning on a message from party B, such that the third party gains no permanent knowledge of the mail, and that the actions taken because of the third party scanning are only evident to party A. Further, I have no idea how to deal with mail data being subpoenaed to verfiy proper adword searching. Seems to me like there are probably many reasons that mail data could be supoenaed. (Oh, also, I hope I didn't/don't seem like I'm berating anyone. I don't intend to. :)) -- Robert Jewell From jonadab at bright.net Sat Jun 19 10:36:35 2004 From: jonadab at bright.net (Jonadab the Unsightly One) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:39 2005 Subject: [COLUG] What good uses for Flash are there? In-Reply-To: (frank rieder's message of "Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:45:35 -0400") References: Message-ID: frank_rieder@bankone.com writes: > Off topic: It also makes me uneasy that after reloading Windows 2000 > on my fiances' computer last night, Sasser got me before the updates > could be downloaded. Shows me there are others out there that STILL > have not updated their computers. Given the number of Windows systems in active use and my personal experience with the frequency with which a typical Windows system needs to be reinstalled, I am virtually certain that this will continue to be the case until that version of Windows is so hopefully obsolete that almost everyone upgrades away from it. You see, at any given time, there is a large enough population of Windows systems in the process of having Windows reinstalled that a worm can thrive just on those systems, even if all fully-installed systems are patched. It has to be a worm that spreads quickly, infecting new systems within a very few minutes of gaining control of the system, so traditional lie-dormant-for-weeks viruses are out, but a lot of the recent worms spread quickly enough to make it work. The solution is to install Windows from behind a NAT gateway or firewall. Frankly Windows should always be behind one anyway. -- $;=sub{$/};@;=map{my($a,$b)=($_,$;);$;=sub{$a.$b->()}} split//,"ten.thgirb\@badanoj$/ --";$\=$ ;-> ();print$/ From jonadab at bright.net Sat Jun 19 22:06:50 2004 From: jonadab at bright.net (Jonadab the Unsightly One) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:39 2005 Subject: [COLUG] What good uses for Flash are there? In-Reply-To: <20040614094235.2348afaa.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> (jep200404@columbus.rr.com's message of "Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:42:35 -0400") References: <40C9E022.5010608@osu.edu> <69F3C728-BDB1-11D8-97EF-00039317745E@functionalmedia.com> <20040614094235.2348afaa.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> Message-ID: <3c4rkmo5.fsf@jonadab.homeip.net> Jim writes: > The biggest use I see for Flash is for annoying animated images, > like animated GIFs, but one can not disable Flash animation, so > Flash is even worse than GIFs. Oh, yes, one can disable Flash animations. All one has to do is rm the Flash plugin, which I did years ago. Voila. > The best use I've seen for Flash was for satirical cartoons. > The content was significant, although one still had little > control over watching it. MPEG would have been better. If what you've got is a linear movie, MPEG is better than flash in all ways except one: MPEG uses lossy compression, so it's typically uglier than a four-hundred-pound man in a thong. Of course, for content served over the web, the lossy compression might actually be a good tradeoff. It is possible to use Flash for not-entirely-linear stuff, similar to Director, wherein the user's action can determine which canned animation sequence is shown. There might even be more advanced functionality than that, but nobody ever uses it. For me, the ability to view all seven websites on the internet that use Flash for something other than animation is not worth the tradeoff of seeing all the lame animations[1], so I generally keep the Flash plugin somewhere other than my plugins folder (on computers that have it installed at all). There's a Firefox extension that causes instances of Flash not to be loaded unless you click on them, in which case they do play (assuming you have the Flash plugin installed). That seems like a good solution to me, and I look forward to it in the future, when in other respects Firefox catches up with Navigator in terms of general maturity. (In particular, the mechanism for installing extensions is still quite flaky, which is prohibitive for me since many of the extensions reintroduce functionality that I already rely on in the Seamonkey suite.) [1] No, I don't care if they're something other than advertisements, I still don't want to see superfluous lame animations. -- $;=sub{$/};@;=map{my($a,$b)=($_,$;);$;=sub{$a.$b->()}} split//,"ten.thgirb\@badanoj$/ --";$\=$ ;-> ();print$/ From floyd at eurogators.net Sun Jun 20 13:06:17 2004 From: floyd at eurogators.net (Floyd Absher) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:39 2005 Subject: mail filter Message-ID: Any idea when the mail subject line is going to be fixed? I used to be able to pre-sort my email with the [COLUG] subject tag, but this has been missing for a while. -Floyd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.colug.net/pipermail/colug/attachments/20040620/1ed16bab/attachment.htm From dollzerr at iwaynet.net Sun Jun 20 14:31:44 2004 From: dollzerr at iwaynet.net (Jess Balint) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:39 2005 Subject: mail filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40D5D810.8090107@iwaynet.net> Floyd - What mail client are you using? There is probably an option to use a to/cc based filter. One thing we DO need to fix it seems is the Reply-to address. ~ Jess Floyd Absher wrote: > Any idea when the mail subject line is going to be fixed? I used to be > able to pre-sort my email with the [COLUG] subject tag, but this has > been missing for a while. > > > > -Floyd > From colug at colug.net Sun Jun 20 16:09:02 2004 From: colug at colug.net (colug@colug.net) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:39 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Free Stuff: Mondo SCSI CD-ROM Drive Case Message-ID: <20040620160902.4b20fc47.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> External SCSI drive case for 7 CD-ROM drives, including the drives. Serious heavy duty stuff with door to seal out dust. Power supply is in separate chamber. Free to any home, even a bad one. Contact me off the list. From jep200404 at columbus.rr.com Sun Jun 20 18:16:03 2004 From: jep200404 at columbus.rr.com (Jim) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:39 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Re: Free Stuff: Mondo SCSI CD-ROM Drive Case In-Reply-To: <20040620160902.4b20fc47.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> References: <20040620160902.4b20fc47.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040620181603.637b8f84.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> Let's try this again. Earlier I wrote: > External SCSI drive case for > 7 CD-ROM drives, including the drives. > Serious heavy duty stuff with door to seal > out dust. Power supply is in separate chamber. > > Free to any home, even a bad one. > > Contact me off the list. But my identity was stripped from the letter. Hopefully this time my email address is preserved in the From: line. Jim From fruviad at yahoo.com Sun Jun 20 22:07:02 2004 From: fruviad at yahoo.com (peter kukla) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:39 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Re: mail filter In-Reply-To: <40D5D810.8090107@iwaynet.net> Message-ID: <20040621020702.50207.qmail@web51810.mail.yahoo.com> The [COLUG] tag in the subject is something I'd like to see return, too. Since I haven't done much to contribute towards management of the group hitherto, I probably don't have much right to whine about this, so take or ignore my comments as you see fit. The answer to questions about the [COLUG] tag seem to be "find another way to filter COLUG messages." Usually this answer is accompanied by friendly advice on what/how to filter, but that's the gist of it. I'm not sure whether the folks in charge of the list have decided to go with the current config, but it seems that may be the case. In my (probably incorrect) opinion, an IT system that provides output (mailing list, mainframe program, you name it) should not arbitrarily change its output and expect downstream systems to conform to the new system. Besides...I've gotten used to visually picking COLUG messages out of the clutter in my mailbox. -peter > Floyd Absher wrote: > > Any idea when the mail subject line is going to be > fixed? I used to be > > able to pre-sort my email with the [COLUG] subject > tag, but this has > > been missing for a while. > > > > > > > > -Floyd __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From skippy at skippy.net Mon Jun 21 17:21:35 2004 From: skippy at skippy.net (Scott Merrill) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:39 2005 Subject: [COLUG] June Meeting Announcement Message-ID: <35601.216.136.35.122.1087852895.squirrel@www.skippy.net> Followup-to: colugx at colug.net MEETING NOTICE ============== Central Ohio Linux Users Group Date: Saturday, 26 June, 1:00 to 3:00 PM local Meeting Presentation ==================== 1. Introduction to CVS (Josh Glover) 2. Using CVS to Manage a Software Project (Josh Glover) 3. Using CVS to Manage Config Files (Josh Glover and Jim Wildman) The upcoming meeting is open to the general public, and all with an interest in Free Software, Open Source, Linux, BSD, Unix, Windows, or whatever, are invited. MEETING SITE: ============= The June 2004 meeting will be held at: OCSEA 390 Worthington Rd. Westerville, OH 43082 865-4700 ...The group has met on the LAST Wednesday or LAST Saturday of a month, alternating by month to allow more folks to mesh their schedules with COLUG's. Sites and dates also depend on facility availabity, with common-sense relocation in the holiday season. The webpage often has a link to a map to the upcoming meeting site. See: http://www.colug.net/meetings.php The website is always authoritative to other discussions, such as might be seen on the mailing list. From skippy at skippy.net Tue Jun 22 11:35:19 2004 From: skippy at skippy.net (Scott Merrill) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:39 2005 Subject: [COLUG] June Meeting follow-up Message-ID: <36120.216.136.35.122.1087918519.squirrel@www.skippy.net> I just downloaded the SUSE Linux 9.1 Personal ISO. Would anyone like me to bring a few copies to the meeting Saturday? Are there any other requests from bandwidth-impaired members? From bruce at nerdjournal.com Tue Jun 22 15:52:10 2004 From: bruce at nerdjournal.com (Bruce Obenour) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:39 2005 Subject: [COLUG] A couple free systems Message-ID: <40D88DEA.4050709@nerdjournal.com> Guys, I'm moving and I have a couple free systems to give away. There are six systems (various P2 & P100) and three monitors (HP, etc) to anyone who wants them. All the systems have at least 256 of RAM but they will be missing the hard drives. I cannot tell you if they all run or not, but a couple were still running as of 2 weeks ago. I live in Powell, so ping me with an e-mail if your interested. Thanks Bruce From gordon.mott at gmail.com Tue Jun 22 15:55:35 2004 From: gordon.mott at gmail.com (Gordon Mott) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:39 2005 Subject: [COLUG] June Meeting follow-up In-Reply-To: <36120.216.136.35.122.1087918519.squirrel@www.skippy.net> References: <36120.216.136.35.122.1087918519.squirrel@www.skippy.net> Message-ID: <2ee98d2804062212554a6a0739@mail.gmail.com> Yes. I would like world peace.. and, if that is not available, I think I could settle for a football helmet full of cottage cheese and a nude picture of Bea Arthur. =) On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 11:35:19 -0400 (EDT), Scott Merrill wrote: > > I just downloaded the SUSE Linux 9.1 Personal ISO. Would anyone like me > to bring a few copies to the meeting Saturday? > > Are there any other requests from bandwidth-impaired members? > _______________________________________________ > colug mailing list > colug@colug.net > http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug > From bruce at nerdjournal.com Tue Jun 22 17:40:36 2004 From: bruce at nerdjournal.com (Bruce Obenour) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:40 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Systems For Sale in Powell Message-ID: <40D8A754.5050304@nerdjournal.com> If you read my other mail you know I'm moving. Time to clear out the office. So here are two system I would like to sell to a local person versus putting them on eBay. Dell Precision 210 workstation 500 Mhz CPU - 512 Meg RAM CD-ROM/Firewire card Riva TNT 32 meg Video 20 gig & 120 gig Hardrives two NIC's Used as Linux and WinXP workstation $ 125.00 Shuttle SK41G with 1.4 ghz AMD Athlon (barebones) Low profile XPC Shuttle Case CD-RW 24X NO memory or hard drive Used as a Windows 2k & 2003 server Ran fine, I just m,oved the memory and HD to another system. $ 145.00 Pictures can be sent. E-mail with any questions. I'm in Powell, Ohio Thanks Bruce From john at burroway.net Tue Jun 22 18:26:52 2004 From: john at burroway.net (John Burroway) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:40 2005 Subject: [COLUG] June Meeting follow-up In-Reply-To: <2ee98d2804062212554a6a0739@mail.gmail.com> References: <36120.216.136.35.122.1087918519.squirrel@www.skippy.net> <2ee98d2804062212554a6a0739@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200406221826.53270.john@burroway.net> On Tuesday 22 June 2004 03:55 pm, Gordon Mott wrote: > Yes. I would like world peace.. and, if that is not available, I > think I could settle for a football helmet full of cottage cheese and > a nude picture of Bea Arthur. =) Thanks for that image... Brrrr! John Burroway www.burroway.net From skippy at skippy.net Wed Jun 23 15:29:48 2004 From: skippy at skippy.net (Scott Merrill) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:40 2005 Subject: [COLUG] it's come a long way... Message-ID: <33428.216.136.35.122.1088018988.squirrel@www.skippy.net> I rebuilt my desktop at work yesterday. What was originally a Red Hat 7.2 machine had been yum'ed up to Red Hat 9.0, but various bits and pieces had broken along the way (python, most notably, which prevented any more yum'ing). I originally planned to install SUSE 9.1 Personal, but found out mid-install that the ISO image I burned to disc was corrupt (there _is_ a reason the distributions publish MD5 sums of their disc images!); so I downloaded the Debian Sarge Release Candidate mini-CD image [1], and bootstrapped my system from there. First and foremost, the new Debian installer is _worlds_ better than the old one. It's still text based (ncurses, I think?) but it detects a lot more stuff than Debian ever had before. It let me choose either a 2.4 or 2.6 kernel, and then prompted me to choose aptitude or tasksel for package selection. I screwed up here, and bypassed selecting any packages, which gave me a _completely_ minimal system. This wasn't a problem, though, because I knew what I wanted. First I pointed apt toward the unstable repository, and then 'apt-get install'ed my way to KDE 3.2. Smooth sailing all the way. My KDE desktop is running great, and is quite pleasant to look at. Today I decided to see how KOrganizer and/or KPilot might behave with my Sony CLIE. My last foray into this "terror-tory" was less than enjoyable. KPilot crashed constantly on me before, and didn't like the fact that I was using USB instead of serial. I ended up using JPilot[2] (great work, Judd!); but the underlying pilot-link suite was finnicky and required me to try several times before it would ever actually synchronize with the handheld via the USB connection. KPilot 4.4.1, on the other hand, asked me how my handheld connected to the system (giving a full list of serial, infrared, and USB options), politely informed me that it was going to lower privileges on that device node, and then started to complain that the handheld wasn't talking to it. I quickly docked the CLIE, pushed the HotSync button, and presto! the synchronization started. *wow* Better still, KPilot has working conduits between itself and KOrganizer and KAddressbook. Color me impressed. This is one aspect that I'd always hated about owning a Palm-powered organizer: being constrained to the ?Pilot application to see my calendar and contacts on my GNU/Linux PC; or being forced to manually export from the ?Pilot app and then import into the organizer or address book. Now I can sync my CLIE and immediately have my entire address book available in KMail. Just the way it ought to be. I know some folks have been enjoying this level of integration for some time (better supported hardware; better integration from the distribution, etc). I know other folks have pieced this kind of integration together for themselves. All I can say is that I continue to be delighted with GNU/Linux and Free Software. 1: http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ 2: http://jpilot.org/ From fruviad at yahoo.com Wed Jun 23 18:26:37 2004 From: fruviad at yahoo.com (peter kukla) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:40 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Linux-friendly rural broadband in Central Ohio? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040623222637.51788.qmail@web51808.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks to all for your comments on the rural broadband issue. Your input was extremely helpful as I evaluated the various options. In case anyone cares, this is what I've decided to do about it. Internet access for browsing will be regular dialup. My web server will be hosted via colocation, hanging off someone else's RR connection. I'm probably not going with a satellite solution because of the latency issue (bad for ssh) and the price/performance ratio, although a few months of dialup may change my mind. Besides, I think several months of Internet-deprivation may be a moderately good thing, considering the many chores that will coincide with new home ownership. In case anyone else is interested, here is some region-specific information. I checked with the biggest local dialup ISP, Greenapple, and they didn't bat an eye when I mentioned Linux. I was warned that they provided a MS Windows-only accellerator which I couldn't use on Linux, but was also informed that it was optional, and I could connect fine with Linux. I was very happy with their attitude towards Linux in general. It almost sounds like they are willing to walk me through configuring a Linux connection. Try getting that from Time-Warner! Greenapple is advertising wireless DSL as “coming soon” on their website, and the Greenapple tech I spoke with said that it would probably be available in my area (route 22 & Delmont road, roughly) in about six months. I can practically see the cell tower from my new house, so I'm hoping that will turn out well. Hope this helps someone else... -peter __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo From fruviad at yahoo.com Wed Jun 23 18:46:20 2004 From: fruviad at yahoo.com (peter kukla) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:40 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Cloning Linux systems? Message-ID: <20040623224620.24659.qmail@web51806.mail.yahoo.com> For those following my travails, I have been banished to Rural Ohio, and someone else will be hosting my webserver at another location. I have purchased 2 identical computers. I would like to use one as the production system which will be hosted at the remote location, and another as a clone development system. From time to time, I would like to transfer the changes from the development system to the webserver. I have not yet decided upon a Linux distro, but I'm leaning towards Red Hat/Fedora, due to a lot of Red Hat experience. What is the best way to clone a new Linux system, and maintain the changes to the system over time? Thanks in advance for any advice and pointers... -peter __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From skippy at skippy.net Wed Jun 23 19:13:48 2004 From: skippy at skippy.net (Scott Merrill) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:40 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Cloning Linux systems? In-Reply-To: <20040623224620.24659.qmail@web51806.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040623224620.24659.qmail@web51806.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40DA0EAC.1070702@skippy.net> peter kukla wrote: > What is the best way to clone a new Linux system, and > maintain the changes to the system over time? I'm _guessing_ (due to zero experience with it, yet) that rsync may be an option to consider for propogating the changes from your dev server to the production server. From jep200404 at columbus.rr.com Wed Jun 23 19:10:24 2004 From: jep200404 at columbus.rr.com (Jim) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:40 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Cloning Linux systems? In-Reply-To: <20040623224620.24659.qmail@web51806.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040623224620.24659.qmail@web51806.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040623191024.3150c970.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> peter kukla wrote: > What is the best way to clone a new Linux system, and > maintain the changes to the system over time? To maintain changes over time, rsync works well, whether source and destination are on the same machine, or on separate machines over a network. rsync is particularly good at sending only the changes to minimize bandwidth. This will be particularly desireable for updates over the phone line. rsync -aH -e ssh local/dir pkukla@remote.host.com:mirror The command line syntax of rsync requires study. > I have purchased 2 identical computers. For the initial cloning of truly identical drives, the easiest way is to use dd from tomsrtbt or Knoppix with a command something like: dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hdb If cloning with Knoppix, be darned sure to NOT let it have a swap partition on either hard drive. Use much RAM instead. The above command copies all the sectors, include the partition table, boot stuff, and all the partitions. Some folks are concerned about dd not catching some low level errors. You could run commands like: dd if=/dev/hda | md5sum -- dd if=/dev/hdb | md5sum -- several times each, to verify that the source and destination drives have absolutely the same content. Sometimes dd does a poor job of figuring out where a hard drive ends, so you might want to tell dd exactly how big your drive is with the bs and count options. If the drives do not have the same geometry, then dd will not work for you. You'll have to partition the drives separately, mount the partitions and use rsync to copy files. You'd also have to install the boot loader separately on the second drive. Another, likely faster way to verify simultaneous content of files (but not their metadata) is to use rsync with -c option. From josh at bitbuckets.com Thu Jun 24 00:22:08 2004 From: josh at bitbuckets.com (Joshua Kramer) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:40 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Linux-friendly rural broadband in Central Ohio? In-Reply-To: <20040623222637.51788.qmail@web51808.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Going back to dialup really isn't that bad. A couple of years ago I moved from Columbus to Apple Valley (http://www.applevalleypoa.com) and ran into this same problem. At first I was using an old 33.6 modem I had lying around, then I upgraded to 56k. The thing I miss most is the ability to download CD ISO's. Most other well-designed sites are bearable. There were a handful of things that I attempted. There were a couple of satellite options - Directway and one other independent company that actively supported Linux. Directway requires you to sign over your first born, and the other company had a hefty startup fee to purchase equipment. One company offered wireless high speed over HDTV (download over wireless, upload over modem) and they had drivers for linux that were unsupported. I signed up for the service, but when the technician came out to install it, he found that it was impossible to get a strong enough signal. so that was out. Finally, Sprint just announced DSL availability last week, so it looks like that's the direction we're going in. My e-mail and web pages are handled by a colocated server I have. --Josh From ken at alpha2.com Thu Jun 24 09:17:04 2004 From: ken at alpha2.com (Ken Bradford) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:40 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Linux-friendly rural broadband in Central Ohio? In-Reply-To: <20040623222637.51788.qmail@web51808.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <02c501c459ed$8b113b20$690aa8c0@alpha2.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: colug-bounces@colug.net [mailto:colug-bounces@colug.net]On Behalf > Of peter kukla > Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 6:27 PM > To: colug@colug.net > Subject: Re: [COLUG] Linux-friendly rural broadband in Central Ohio? > > > My web server will be hosted via colocation, hanging > off someone else's RR connection. > Has something changed with RR (I thought that was a TOS violation)? Or, perhaps your just ignoring that? I ask, not to be snippy, but because that's why I never hosted my own web server at home. BTW, will you be using a dynamic dns service then? If so, who? Ken Bradford Alpha II Service, Inc. From lefevre.10 at osu.edu Thu Jun 24 09:22:58 2004 From: lefevre.10 at osu.edu (Steve Lefevre) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:40 2005 Subject: [COLUG] SATA questions Message-ID: <40DAD5B2.6010008@osu.edu> Hey folks - I have some SATA questions. I haven't found a place on the web that can give me straight answers. How many SATA devices fit on a SATA cable? Just one? So each drive needs it's own connection to the mobo or controller card? Or can you daisy-chain them or split the cable? Steve Lefevre From whooper at freeshell.org Thu Jun 24 09:40:50 2004 From: whooper at freeshell.org (William Hooper) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:40 2005 Subject: [COLUG] SATA questions In-Reply-To: <40DAD5B2.6010008@osu.edu> References: <40DAD5B2.6010008@osu.edu> Message-ID: <2571.12.29.16.103.1088084450.squirrel@12.29.16.103> Steve Lefevre said: > Hey folks - > > > I have some SATA questions. I haven't found a place on the web that can > give me straight answers. > > How many SATA devices fit on a SATA cable? Just one? Yes > So each drive needs > it's own connection to the mobo or controller card? Yes > Or can you daisy-chain > them or split the cable? No. -- William Hooper From mwmiller at columbus.rr.com Thu Jun 24 09:56:54 2004 From: mwmiller at columbus.rr.com (Matthew W. Miller) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:40 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Linux-friendly rural broadband in Central Ohio? In-Reply-To: <02c501c459ed$8b113b20$690aa8c0@alpha2.com> References: <20040623222637.51788.qmail@web51808.mail.yahoo.com> <02c501c459ed$8b113b20$690aa8c0@alpha2.com> Message-ID: <20040624135654.GA17011@columbus.rr.com> On Thu, Jun 24, 2004 at 09:17:04AM -0400, Ken Bradford wrote: >From: peter kukla >> My web server will be hosted via colocation, hanging off someone >> else's RR connection. >Has something changed with RR (I thought that was a TOS violation)? I'm pretty sure RR TOS still has the no-servers clause, but I gather that it's kind of like driving without a licence: if you do it without messing anything up, you won't be noticed. On the other hand, if your outgoing bandwidth suddenly skyrockets and chokes your connection, they'll probably notice that. I suggest you plan ahead by rejecting connections with referrers from Slashdot. ;) -- Matthew W. Miller MPlayer does not suck. From ken at alpha2.com Thu Jun 24 10:12:52 2004 From: ken at alpha2.com (Ken Bradford) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:40 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Bash tests with [[ double square brackets ]]. Message-ID: <000b01c459f5$5639baa0$690aa8c0@alpha2.com> Could someone please explain why I need to use double square brackets in these 2 tests? if [[ "$proto" != \#* ]] && [[ $proto != "" ]]; then... The first checks for comment lines, the second for blank lines. If I use single square brackets then the first doesn't treat the "*" as a wildcard and the second returns: "[: !=: unary operator expected" If it encounters a blank line. I came across the "[[ ]]" syntax on the web, but without explanation. Ken Bradford Alpha II Service, Inc. From harmison at ohio.edu Thu Jun 24 12:37:30 2004 From: harmison at ohio.edu (Jeffrey Harmison) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:40 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Hello Message-ID: <1730000.1088095050@aesculus.cas.ad.ohiou.edu> Greetings from Athens! Just wanted to introduce myself...since I am now on this list. I am orignally from the Columbus area (Worthington HS grad 1987) and am now working for OU. I really enjoy Linux and am very excited about it's potential. I am also a big OSX fan and have been using Macs since the IIe days. Hope that we can share some great info! See my bio (on the website listed below) for more info about me. Cheers, Jeffrey ----------------------- Jeffrey Harmison, IT Zone Tech Support Ohio University - Athens, Ohio USA Departments of Biological Sciences & Plant Biology http://aesculus.cas.ad.ohiou.edu 740-541-1156 "If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking." - General George Patton Jr. From dane at olneyfriends.org Thu Jun 24 16:38:23 2004 From: dane at olneyfriends.org (Dane Miller) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:40 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Linux RAID problem Message-ID: <1088109503.873.74.camel@opus> Hi all, I'm hoping someone might have some ideas about a frustrating server problem I am experiencing. My log files are recording nothing out of the ordinary and I can predictably crash my server... ouch :( Recently, whenever I do a full backup of /home on the server, about fifteen minutes into the backup the server completely locks up. No ping response, no console access, unable to wake monitor from power saving mode. So I do a hard power-off. /home lives on a software RAID 1 array of 3 80gb Western Digital ATA100 disks (2 active disks + 1 spare). When I reboot the box the RAID 1 mirror has to be rebuilt. The specific error message in dmesg is "md: md0: raid array is not clean -- starting background reconstruction" I am performing the backup with ssh, tar, and gzip over the network. This problem started earlier this month and after repeated crashes, caused hardware failure in the two active 80gb disks. Since then, I've replaced the power supply and the two active disks. The server is a Libranet 2.8.1 Debian Sarge/Unstable box. Kernel 2.4.20. raidtools-1.00.3 Any thoughts? Hardware? Software? Any suggestions would be really appreciated. Thanks, Dane From josh at bitbuckets.com Thu Jun 24 17:28:43 2004 From: josh at bitbuckets.com (Joshua Kramer) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:40 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Linux RAID problem In-Reply-To: <1088109503.873.74.camel@opus> Message-ID: Hi Dane, > I am performing the backup with ssh, tar, and gzip over the network. Have you tried to isolate those parts? eg, what happens if you do a backup without using ssh... or gzip... or what happens if you do a backup to another local disk? Have you tried to remove all non-essential components (to see if they're draining too much power)? Have you tried to underclock your processor? I recently had a flaky IDE CD Burner... sometimes, during sessions, the PC would stop recognizing both of my CD-drives (I had the reader on the same bus as the burner). Then also, sometimes, upon reboot, the PC would stop recognizing the second hard disk. Removal of the flaky CD burner took care of the problems. --Josh From jim at rossberry.com Thu Jun 24 17:47:29 2004 From: jim at rossberry.com (Jim Wildman) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:40 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Re: June meeting In-Reply-To: <20040616115945.GA22918%jmglov@jmglov.net> References: <35300.216.136.35.122.1087308594.squirrel@www.skippy.net> <35897.216.136.35.122.1087317886.squirrel@www.skippy.net> <20040616115945.GA22918%jmglov@jmglov.net> Message-ID: OK. I'm going to bring a laptop with linux and CVS. I have some scripts that I will print out so folks can follow along and we will walk through those scripts. I can start with "The repository is already initialized". Do we have Internet at this location? On Wed, 16 Jun 2004, Josh Glover wrote: > Quoth Jim Wildman (Tue 2004-06-15 08:46:11PM -0400): > > > I was offering, but I cannot guarantee that I will be able to make it. I > > should know by Thursday if I can make it on Saturday. > > Jim, > > If you can make it, what do you say we coordinate a bit? I was planning > to whip up a presentation using OOo's presentation component. Is that > cool with you? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jim Wildman, CISSP, RHCE jim@rossberry.com http://www.rossberry.com "Our political way of life is by the laws of nature, of nature's God, and of course presupposes the existence of God, the moral ruler of the universe, and a rule of right and wrong, of just and unjust, binding upon man, preceding all institutions of human society and government." John Quincy Adamns From robb at bossleyfamily.com Thu Jun 24 14:44:04 2004 From: robb at bossleyfamily.com (Robb Bossley) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:40 2005 Subject: [COLUG] A perplexing problem Message-ID: <20040624184404.7cc3341f@Samuel.bigbobs.org> I have been messing around with uml, as well as toying with the idea of making my own "distro", simply for the learning experience - yes, I am pretty crazy. My understanding is that most of the main utilities can be compiled from source on an already existing system, and some type of flag can be given during the compile process to cause the compiler to understand that the target "system" is a mounted filesystem other than the one currently being used. Is this true? If so, is this a somewhat standard flag? How would it normally be invoked? It seems that doing this type of build from source process is like the chicken and the egg - one cannot compile unless one has the make, gcc, glibc, etc, but one must compile these to have them. Any help is appreciated. Robb From sfgroups at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 24 21:37:25 2004 From: sfgroups at sbcglobal.net (sundaram) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:41 2005 Subject: [COLUG] sendmail Connection rejected: reverse DNS lookup failed Message-ID: <001301c45a54$fe852d70$6400a8c0@sundaram> Hi, I am running sendmail for my E-mail server. We are not able to send mail to one of our customer, we are getting reverse DNS lookup failed error message. I checked reverse DNS lookup for my domain, output looks good. SBC is hosting my customer mail server; they are saying it's my DNS server problem. Here is some more information about this problem. Any tips to fix this. My sendmail log file: =============== Jun 24 20:33:58 mail sendmail[23789]: [ID 801593 mail.info] i5MEA3J9023025: to=<@valenciagroup.com>, ctladdr=<@ percipia.com> (1055/10), delay=2+10:23:54, xdelay=00:01:21, mailer=esmtp, pri=21121307, relay=mail-fwd.sbc-webhosting.com. [ xxx.173.237.179], dsn=4.0.0, stat=Deferred: 450 : Connection rejected: reverse DNS lookup failed Jun 24 20:33:58 mail sendmail[23789]: [ID 801593 mail.info] i5LKS3J9016670: to=, ctladdr= (1090/10), delay=3+04:05:55, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=esmtp, pri=27606012, relay=mail-fwd.sbc-webhosting.com ., dsn=4.0.0, stat=Deferred SBC Response: =========== >- The Sorbs DUHL (Dynamic User Host List) black list contains IP addresses, >assigned in a dynamic fashion, by an ISP for an Internet connection. This >protocol (DHCP for example) is widely used for those Internet users who have >dial-up, DSL, ADSL and Cable connections. These types of Internet access >users should relay mail through their ISP's authorized relays. In fact, most >of the IP's on this list were actually supplied to Sorbs by the ISP's who >maintain these IP's. > > > >- rDNS checking (PTR record). Each connection made to deliver email to your >domain will have a rDNS check made against the IP. If the IP address making >the connection does NOT have a PTR record, the connection will be denied. > >Anyone that wishes to send email to our servers and does not have a reverse >DNS entry for their IP address will need to contact their Internet access >provider to have this setup. > Thanks SR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.colug.net/pipermail/colug/attachments/20040624/f8f6ceba/attachment.htm From colug at jmglov.net Thu Jun 24 21:55:01 2004 From: colug at jmglov.net (Josh Glover) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:41 2005 Subject: [COLUG] SATA questions In-Reply-To: <2571.12.29.16.103.1088084450.squirrel@12.29.16.103> References: <40DAD5B2.6010008@osu.edu> <2571.12.29.16.103.1088084450.squirrel@12.29.16.103> Message-ID: <20040625015501.GA24127%jmglov@jmglov.net> Quoth William Hooper (Thu 2004-06-24 09:40:50AM -0400): > > Steve Lefevre said: > > Hey folks - > > > > > > I have some SATA questions. I haven't found a place on the web that can > > give me straight answers. > > > > How many SATA devices fit on a SATA cable? Just one? > > Yes Hence the name: *Serial* ATA. :) Seriously. Daisy-chaining only works with a parallel data protocol. -- Josh Glover Gentoo Developer (http://dev.gentoo.org/~jmglov/) Tokyo Linux Users Group Listmaster (http://www.tlug.jp/) GPG keyID 0xDE8A3103 (C3E4 FA9E 1E07 BBDB 6D8B 07AB 2BF1 67A1 DE8A 3103) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys DE8A3103 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.colug.net/pipermail/colug/attachments/20040624/10ef65de/attachment.bin From colug at jmglov.net Thu Jun 24 22:03:38 2004 From: colug at jmglov.net (Josh Glover) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:41 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Hello In-Reply-To: <1730000.1088095050@aesculus.cas.ad.ohiou.edu> References: <1730000.1088095050@aesculus.cas.ad.ohiou.edu> Message-ID: <20040625020338.GB24127%jmglov@jmglov.net> Quoth Jeffrey Harmison (Thu 2004-06-24 12:37:30PM -0400): > I am also a big OSX fan and have been using Macs since the IIe days. The ][e(TM) was not strictly a Mac... ;) I got my start on a ][c. Did you do Applesoft BASIC? That got me into coding, then I messed about with assembler a bit, mainly rote copy from the Apple magazine (forget what is was called now). Fun stuff! Welcome to the list! -- Josh Glover Gentoo Developer (http://dev.gentoo.org/~jmglov/) Tokyo Linux Users Group Listmaster (http://www.tlug.jp/) GPG keyID 0xDE8A3103 (C3E4 FA9E 1E07 BBDB 6D8B 07AB 2BF1 67A1 DE8A 3103) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys DE8A3103 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.colug.net/pipermail/colug/attachments/20040624/9c426be9/attachment.bin From dmaxwell at columbus.rr.com Thu Jun 24 22:28:34 2004 From: dmaxwell at columbus.rr.com (Dave Maxwell) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:41 2005 Subject: [COLUG] SATA questions In-Reply-To: <20040625015501.GA24127%jmglov@jmglov.net> References: <40DAD5B2.6010008@osu.edu> <2571.12.29.16.103.1088084450.squirrel@12.29.16.103> <20040625015501.GA24127%jmglov@jmglov.net> Message-ID: <200406242228.34757.dmaxwell@columbus.rr.com> On Thursday 24 June 2004 09:55 pm, Josh Glover wrote: > Hence the name: *Serial* ATA. :) Seriously. Daisy-chaining only works > with a parallel data protocol. That may be true of SATA in particular but it needn't be true of serial protocols in general. I had an Atari 8-bit machine in the eighties with a couple of drives chained together from it's serial SIO ports. Actually, with SIO2PC and it's ilk a PC can sit at the end of an SIO chain and mimic Atari drives and printers. Unless the peripheral was intended to sit at the end of the chain, an SIO device had two or three switches on it you used to tell the host it's position in the chain. Of course, only one device could talk to the host at a time. In a way, you could view such systems as the primitive great granddaddies of USB and IEEE1394. The other 8-bits of the era used similar serial bus schemes to interface with device chains. Come to think of it, the S in USB stands for Serial. Some USB devices (notably keyboards) can be used to daisy-chain. Dave -- "Confound these ancestors.... They've stolen our best ideas!" - Ben Jonson From dmaxwell at columbus.rr.com Thu Jun 24 22:30:34 2004 From: dmaxwell at columbus.rr.com (Dave Maxwell) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:41 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Hello In-Reply-To: <20040625020338.GB24127%jmglov@jmglov.net> References: <1730000.1088095050@aesculus.cas.ad.ohiou.edu> <20040625020338.GB24127%jmglov@jmglov.net> Message-ID: <200406242230.34692.dmaxwell@columbus.rr.com> On Thursday 24 June 2004 10:03 pm, Josh Glover wrote: > Quoth Jeffrey Harmison (Thu 2004-06-24 12:37:30PM -0400): > > I am also a big OSX fan and have been using Macs since the IIe days. > > The ][e(TM) was not strictly a Mac... ;) I got my start on a ][c. Did > you do Applesoft BASIC? That got me into coding, then I messed about > with assembler a bit, mainly rote copy from the Apple magazine (forget > what is was called now). Fun stuff! > > Welcome to the list! There's an xscreensaver hack where you see programs being pecked out character by character on a noisy composite monitor. When the program is complete "RUN" is typed out and then you see the moire pattern or whatever. Reminds me of my misspent youth typing in listings from books and magazines. Dave -- Begathon, n.: A multi-day event on public television, used to raise money so you won't have to watch commercials. From jonadab at bright.net Thu Jun 24 22:40:27 2004 From: jonadab at bright.net (Jonadab the Unsightly One) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:41 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Linux RAID problem In-Reply-To: <1088109503.873.74.camel@opus> References: <1088109503.873.74.camel@opus> Message-ID: <40DB909B.9000408@bright.net> Dane Miller wrote: > Recently, whenever I do a full backup of /home on the server, about > fifteen minutes into the backup the server completely locks up. No ping > response, no console access, unable to wake monitor from power saving > mode. So I do a hard power-off. I'm guessing and could well be wrong, but this *sounds* to me like it's hitting a point in the filesystem where reading a particular section of the disk takes forever, possibly due to bizarre filesystem corruption or possibly due to a hardware issue (e.g., bad medium). In other words, you might be hitting an infinite delay in I/O when the system is I/O-bound. Possibly. > /home lives on a software RAID 1 array of 3 80gb Western Digital ATA100 > disks (2 active disks + 1 spare). When I reboot the box the RAID 1 > mirror has to be rebuilt. The specific error message in dmesg is "md: > md0: raid array is not clean -- starting background reconstruction" Since this is RAID 1, can you test with the RAID out of the loop using just one of the drives? (Mount it read-only for this, so you don't get them out of sync.) > I am performing the backup with ssh, tar, and gzip over the network. Can you test with the network out of the loop, e.g. by putting the backup drive into the same system and mounting it locally? > This problem started earlier this month and after repeated crashes, > caused hardware failure in the two active 80gb disks. Are you sure that this problem *caused* the hardware failure in the disks? Could it have been caused *by* a hardware failure related to the disks? Could the drive controller be flaky? > Since then, I've > replaced the power supply and the two active disks. You replaced the disks, and are still experiencing the problem? Can you test with a different drive controller card? > Any thoughts? Hardware? Software? Whatever it is, it's lowlevel. If it's software, it's probably in kernel space (e.g., a driver). You could recompile tar and the other software involved just for grins, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to fix the problem. From jonadab at bright.net Thu Jun 24 23:23:45 2004 From: jonadab at bright.net (Jonadab the Unsightly One) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:41 2005 Subject: [COLUG] SATA questions In-Reply-To: <200406242228.34757.dmaxwell@columbus.rr.com> References: <40DAD5B2.6010008@osu.edu> <2571.12.29.16.103.1088084450.squirrel@12.29.16.103> <20040625015501.GA24127%jmglov@jmglov.net> <200406242228.34757.dmaxwell@columbus.rr.com> Message-ID: <40DB9AC1.6000200@bright.net> Dave Maxwell wrote: > On Thursday 24 June 2004 09:55 pm, Josh Glover wrote: > >> Daisy-chaining only works with a parallel data protocol. > > That may be true of SATA in particular but it needn't be true of > serial protocols in general. [...] Come to think of it, the S in > USB stands for Serial. ISTR that the second S in SCSI stands for serial also, and everyone knows you can chain up to 7 SCSI devices on a bus, if you can find 7 SCSI devices that support the same type of SCSI bus. From windon at windon.net Thu Jun 24 23:32:23 2004 From: windon at windon.net (Chesley A. Windon) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:41 2005 Subject: [COLUG] sendmail Connection rejected: reverse DNS lookup failed In-Reply-To: <001301c45a54$fe852d70$6400a8c0@sundaram> References: <001301c45a54$fe852d70$6400a8c0@sundaram> Message-ID: <40DB9CC7.1050807@windon.net> sundaram wrote: > I am running sendmail for my E-mail server. We are not able to send mail > to one of our customer, we are getting reverse DNS lookup failed error > message. I checked reverse DNS lookup for my domain, output looks good. Is mail.percipia.com the SMTP server or is it just the MX 10? If its just the MX 10, what is the SMTP server's hostname? Chesley From fruviad at yahoo.com Thu Jun 24 23:35:59 2004 From: fruviad at yahoo.com (peter kukla) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:41 2005 Subject: [COLUG] site hosting In-Reply-To: <02c501c459ed$8b113b20$690aa8c0@alpha2.com> Message-ID: <20040625033559.25766.qmail@web51810.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ken Bradford wrote: > > Has something changed with RR (I thought that was a > TOS violation)? Or, > perhaps your just ignoring that? I ask, not to be > snippy, but because that's > why I never hosted my own web server at home. BTW, Strictly speaking, I was probably violating their terms of agreement when I was hosting it myself that way, and presumably the same TOS will be a part of any standard RR connection. I feel I was in keeping with the spirit of the agreement, however...that bandwidth not be resold or used towards a profitable end for myself without reimbursing them for the value provided by their services. The websites I host are mainly a few "vanity" sites for friends that might get accessed a few times per month, and my personal site that I use as a bookmarks/photo album page. I don't accept any money for hosting the sites, and bandwidth for the websites pales in comparison to some of my filesharing-friends who don't have webservers. Note also that part of their complaint is that servers are frequently hijacked and used as spam-servers. I was careful not to let that happen. (Using Linux is a big first step...) In short, I don't feel I'm being a particularly bad netizen. > will you be using a > dynamic dns service then? If so, who? My IP didn't change much during my RR experience unless I shut the webserver down for a day or three, and since it was on full-time that essentially meant I had a static IP address. I simply adjusted the DNS records at my domain registrar when it changed. -peter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From tom at functionalmedia.com Thu Jun 24 23:59:35 2004 From: tom at functionalmedia.com (tom hanlon) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:41 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Linux RAID problem In-Reply-To: <1088109503.873.74.camel@opus> Message-ID: <124CE0B3-C65C-11D8-A619-00039317745E@functionalmedia.com> Not to mention the obvious or perhaps the not so obvious. Might some symlinks within home or perhaps from home to the outside be causing a recursive copy that fills everything up? I have yet to accidently destroy a filesystem but more than once I have accidently begun recursively copying it into itself. Take a look at some of the symlink flags in the commands that you are using. After a few seconds of a cp -R command not returning the cursor you log back in on another console to see what is happening, quickly run "top" to see that "cp" and little else is running. YIKES !! I dunno my confusing problems usually come down to simple mistakes. Tom From tom at functionalmedia.com Fri Jun 25 00:02:43 2004 From: tom at functionalmedia.com (tom hanlon) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:41 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Re: June meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <824C8AAC-C65C-11D8-A619-00039317745E@functionalmedia.com> Wish I could make it.. this meeting sounds GREAT !! Could we put the whole meeting in CVS and I can sync myself with the content at a later date ?? Come to think of it can we put my whole life into CVS so I can roll back to my last working configuration ?? Just curious. Tom On Thursday, June 24, 2004, at 05:47 PM, Jim Wildman wrote: > OK. I'm going to bring a laptop with linux and CVS. I have some > scripts > that I will print out so folks can follow along and we will walk > through > those scripts. I can start with "The repository is already > initialized". > > Do we have Internet at this location? > > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004, Josh Glover wrote: > >> Quoth Jim Wildman (Tue 2004-06-15 08:46:11PM -0400): >> From sjs at khadrin.com Thu Jun 24 20:53:05 2004 From: sjs at khadrin.com (Stephen J. Smith) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:41 2005 Subject: [COLUG] site hosting In-Reply-To: <20040625033559.25766.qmail@web51810.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040625033559.25766.qmail@web51810.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1088124785.2569.54.camel@mamba.khadrin.com> On Thu, 2004-06-24 at 23:35, peter kukla wrote: > I feel I was in keeping with > the spirit of the agreement, however...that bandwidth > not be resold or used towards a profitable end for > myself without reimbursing them for the value provided > by their services. Something to consider about your characterization of the nature of the agreement: to what extent would that be like agreeing to never sell your brand new car? For sure Ford would like it, but wouldn't that be an anti-competitive and possibly illegal arrangement? Don't get too bogged down in the analogy. There is a "it's exactly like" to support every argument. The fundamental question to ask here is "What is property, and why?". Good luck with that one. I try to keep my eye on the pitch. Individuals and minorities should have a voice to speak out about the important things. For sure Time Warner would like the internet to be available only from them. And if they ever got their wish you can bet they would turn it into a unidirectional medium and charge as much as they could for the "content". Call me crazy, but I prefer the content we have now. And for the most part it's free! The point? Run a mail server. Better yet, run a web server and find your voice. TOS be damned! -- Stephen J. Smith | sjs@khadrin.com | http://khadrin.com/ From sjs at khadrin.com Fri Jun 25 01:29:48 2004 From: sjs at khadrin.com (Stephen J. Smith) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:41 2005 Subject: [COLUG] site hosting In-Reply-To: <1088124785.2569.54.camel@mamba.khadrin.com> References: <20040625033559.25766.qmail@web51810.mail.yahoo.com> <1088124785.2569.54.camel@mamba.khadrin.com> Message-ID: <1088141388.2569.72.camel@mamba.khadrin.com> On Thu, 2004-06-24 at 20:53, Stephen J. Smith wrote: > On Thu, 2004-06-24 at 23:35, peter kukla wrote: Interesting how I was able to travel into the past to reply. Or maybe it was just a bizarre UTC mishap. Fortunately no one was injured. No wonder Fedora and Debian did not agree. Also, Peter, I do not mean to direct my comments at you. Your comments seemed like a good springboard for expressing my thoughts on the matter--and maybe getting some feedback to clarify my thinking--is all. From tom at functionalmedia.com Fri Jun 25 02:23:33 2004 From: tom at functionalmedia.com (tom hanlon) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:41 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Mac osx and linux repartition Message-ID: <2F513874-C670-11D8-A619-00039317745E@functionalmedia.com> I have Debian linux and Mac osx on a dual boot ibook. I only have 10gigs of space and rarely the debian partition. Present scheme is 5 gigs and 5 gigs. I would like to move a few gigs of "ext2" space over to "hfs+" space. Any tips on how to procede ? Boot into linux and run cfdisk ?? Boot from mac CD and repartition ? It would be nice to not have to do a dump and restore on the mac partition. I can dump but if possible I would hope that messing with the linux partition would not damage the mac partition. Thanks in advance. Tom Tom Hanlon Functional Media 740-597-1472 tom@functionalmedia.com www.functionalmedia.com From colug at jmglov.net Fri Jun 25 07:03:18 2004 From: colug at jmglov.net (Josh Glover) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:41 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Re: June meeting In-Reply-To: <824C8AAC-C65C-11D8-A619-00039317745E@functionalmedia.com> References: <824C8AAC-C65C-11D8-A619-00039317745E@functionalmedia.com> Message-ID: <20040625110318.GE24127%jmglov@jmglov.net> Quoth tom hanlon (Fri 2004-06-25 12:02:43AM -0400): > Wish I could make it.. this meeting sounds GREAT !! > > Could we put the whole meeting in CVS and I can sync myself with the > content at a later date ?? My presentation will be available afterwards, that is the best we can do, I am afraid! :) > Come to think of it can we put my whole life into CVS so I can roll > back to my last working configuration ?? Yes, yes we can. Because we *have* that kind of power. ;) -- Josh Glover Gentoo Developer (http://dev.gentoo.org/~jmglov/) Tokyo Linux Users Group Listmaster (http://www.tlug.jp/) GPG keyID 0xDE8A3103 (C3E4 FA9E 1E07 BBDB 6D8B 07AB 2BF1 67A1 DE8A 3103) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys DE8A3103 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.colug.net/pipermail/colug/attachments/20040625/5954d1aa/attachment.bin From colug at jmglov.net Fri Jun 25 07:04:51 2004 From: colug at jmglov.net (Josh Glover) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:41 2005 Subject: [COLUG] SATA questions In-Reply-To: <200406242228.34757.dmaxwell@columbus.rr.com> References: <40DAD5B2.6010008@osu.edu> <2571.12.29.16.103.1088084450.squirrel@12.29.16.103> <20040625015501.GA24127%jmglov@jmglov.net> <200406242228.34757.dmaxwell@columbus.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040625110451.GF24127%jmglov@jmglov.net> Quoth Dave Maxwell (Thu 2004-06-24 10:28:34PM -0400): > On Thursday 24 June 2004 09:55 pm, Josh Glover wrote: > > > Hence the name: *Serial* ATA. :) Seriously. Daisy-chaining only works > > with a parallel data protocol. > > That may be true of SATA in particular but it needn't be true of serial > protocols in general. I stand corrected. Thanks for the informative reply. -- Josh Glover Gentoo Developer (http://dev.gentoo.org/~jmglov/) Tokyo Linux Users Group Listmaster (http://www.tlug.jp/) GPG keyID 0xDE8A3103 (C3E4 FA9E 1E07 BBDB 6D8B 07AB 2BF1 67A1 DE8A 3103) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys DE8A3103 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.colug.net/pipermail/colug/attachments/20040625/f7060748/attachment.bin From colug at jmglov.net Fri Jun 25 07:08:19 2004 From: colug at jmglov.net (Josh Glover) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:42 2005 Subject: [COLUG] SATA questions In-Reply-To: <40DB9AC1.6000200@bright.net> References: <40DAD5B2.6010008@osu.edu> <2571.12.29.16.103.1088084450.squirrel@12.29.16.103> <20040625015501.GA24127%jmglov@jmglov.net> <200406242228.34757.dmaxwell@columbus.rr.com> <40DB9AC1.6000200@bright.net> Message-ID: <20040625110819.GG24127%jmglov@jmglov.net> Quoth Jonadab the Unsightly One (Thu 2004-06-24 11:23:45PM -0400): > ISTR that the second S in SCSI stands for serial also, and > everyone knows you can chain up to 7 SCSI devices on a bus, > if you can find 7 SCSI devices that support the same type > of SCSI bus. Funny, I always thought that SCSI stood for "Small Computer System Interface". -- Josh Glover Gentoo Developer (http://dev.gentoo.org/~jmglov/) Tokyo Linux Users Group Listmaster (http://www.tlug.jp/) GPG keyID 0xDE8A3103 (C3E4 FA9E 1E07 BBDB 6D8B 07AB 2BF1 67A1 DE8A 3103) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys DE8A3103 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.colug.net/pipermail/colug/attachments/20040625/4f5bbfc9/attachment.bin From Beano21 at direcway.com Fri Jun 25 07:40:00 2004 From: Beano21 at direcway.com (Frank Rieder) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:42 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Mac osx and linux repartition In-Reply-To: <2F513874-C670-11D8-A619-00039317745E@functionalmedia.com> Message-ID: I was not able to sdo this without creating another disk on my mac(8500 Dual 180 PCI). Are you trying to resize or just have more space availiable for OSX? -----Original Message----- From: colug-bounces@colug.net [mailto:colug-bounces@colug.net]On Behalf Of tom hanlon Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 2:24 AM To: colug@colug.net Subject: [COLUG] Mac osx and linux repartition I have Debian linux and Mac osx on a dual boot ibook. I only have 10gigs of space and rarely the debian partition. Present scheme is 5 gigs and 5 gigs. I would like to move a few gigs of "ext2" space over to "hfs+" space. Any tips on how to procede ? Boot into linux and run cfdisk ?? Boot from mac CD and repartition ? It would be nice to not have to do a dump and restore on the mac partition. I can dump but if possible I would hope that messing with the linux partition would not damage the mac partition. Thanks in advance. Tom Tom Hanlon Functional Media 740-597-1472 tom@functionalmedia.com www.functionalmedia.com _______________________________________________ colug mailing list colug@colug.net http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.708 / Virus Database: 464 - Release Date: 6/18/2004 From sfgroups at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 25 08:43:04 2004 From: sfgroups at sbcglobal.net (sundaram) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:42 2005 Subject: [COLUG] sendmail Connection rejected: reverse DNS lookup failed In-Reply-To: <40DB9CC7.1050807@windon.net> Message-ID: <002801c45ab1$fbe7f310$6400a8c0@sundaram> Chesley, Mail.percipia.com is our E-mail server. Hostname is mail, it provides SMTP services. Thanks Sundaram -----Original Message----- From: colug-bounces@colug.net [mailto:colug-bounces@colug.net] On Behalf Of Chesley A. Windon Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 11:32 PM To: Central OH Linux User Group Subject: Re: [COLUG] sendmail Connection rejected: reverse DNS lookup failed sundaram wrote: > I am running sendmail for my E-mail server. We are not able to send mail > to one of our customer, we are getting reverse DNS lookup failed error > message. I checked reverse DNS lookup for my domain, output looks good. Is mail.percipia.com the SMTP server or is it just the MX 10? If its just the MX 10, what is the SMTP server's hostname? Chesley _______________________________________________ colug mailing list colug@colug.net http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug From darnold at crouchingcrab.net Fri Jun 25 08:50:21 2004 From: darnold at crouchingcrab.net (Derek Arnold) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:42 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Mac osx and linux repartition In-Reply-To: <2F513874-C670-11D8-A619-00039317745E@functionalmedia.com> References: <2F513874-C670-11D8-A619-00039317745E@functionalmedia.com> Message-ID: <40DC1F8D.1080403@crouchingcrab.net> Here's a cool little tool that I found that manipulates mac and linux partitions. http://www.sysresccd.org/index.en.php (also useful for x86 architectures -- it can resize ntfs partitions non-destructively as well) Hope that helps, Derek From frank_rieder at bankone.com Fri Jun 25 09:06:24 2004 From: frank_rieder at bankone.com (frank_rieder@bankone.com) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:42 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Mac osx and linux repartition Message-ID: That looks pretty cool. I am just amazed @ what we have available in software terms. I just need to know the names of them, or know enough to Google more for them. Frank Rieder Operations Specialist Banc One Leasing Corporation Mail code OH1-1085 Phone: 614-213-4591 Fax: 614-213-2083 toll-free 800-879-7184 ext. 34591 Email : Frank Rieder@Bankone.com Derek Arnold gcrab.net> cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: [COLUG] Mac osx and linux repartition colug-bounces@col ug.net 06/25/2004 08:50 AM Please respond to Central OH Linux User Group Here's a cool little tool that I found that manipulates mac and linux partitions. http://www.sysresccd.org/index.en.php (also useful for x86 architectures -- it can resize ntfs partitions non-destructively as well) Hope that helps, Derek _______________________________________________ colug mailing list colug@colug.net http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. From vherried at insight.rr.com Fri Jun 25 09:07:24 2004 From: vherried at insight.rr.com (Vince Herried) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:42 2005 Subject: [COLUG] sendmail Connection rejected: reverse DNS lookup failed In-Reply-To: <001301c45a54$fe852d70$6400a8c0@sundaram> References: <001301c45a54$fe852d70$6400a8c0@sundaram> Message-ID: <200406250907.27400.vherried@insight.rr.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 24 June 2004 09:37 pm, sundaram wrote: > I am running sendmail for my E-mail server. We are not able to send mail > to one of our customer, we are getting reverse DNS lookup failed error > message. I checked reverse DNS lookup for my domain, output looks good. > > SBC is hosting my customer mail server; they are saying it's my DNS > server problem. sound a lot like problems I had a while back with messges to aol and others. It took me a bunch of hacking to get sendmail working again. I made a bunch of changes to sendmail config parms and I don't know which one did the trick, maybe all were required. Your error messages sound a lot like mine also... My server is insight.rr.com domaintable (my machine is called desk.vince) desk.vince insight.rr.com local-host-names: desk.vince localhost.localdomain Mailertable: aol.com esmtp:smtp-server.insight.rr.com insight.rr.com esmtp:smtp-server.insight.rr.com sendmail.mv: LOCAL_DOMAIN(`desk.vince')dnl MASQUERADE_AS(`insight.rr.com')dnl FEATURE(masquerade_envelope)dnl FEATURE(masquerade_entire_domain)dnl MASQUERADE_DOMAIN(desk.vince)dnl virtusertable: (vince is my userid on my desk) I put all users in this table # i think you need to restart sendmail for changes to take vince vherried@insight.rr.com Then do a make and restart sendmail (service sendmail restart). With all that I can now do sendmail sends out the door and internal mail still works. gud lock - -- Vince Herried GPG keyID 0xD004D08366 (8366 F97C AE0A 59AA CB14 952D 85C6 304A D004 D001) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys D004D001 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFA3COPhcYwStAE0AERAu6FAJ4hREslveaviZuYfFOP2hYnzAx9jwCeI8bG zmdTr5YfvOJCAcujkzybvC4= =oC/W -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From darnold at crouchingcrab.net Fri Jun 25 09:14:56 2004 From: darnold at crouchingcrab.net (Derek Arnold) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:42 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Mac osx and linux repartition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40DC2550.7020100@crouchingcrab.net> That's one of the cool yet mildly frustrating things about Linux. Usually, there's an app that does what you need...it's just a matter of finding it. It's part of the allure (to me) of Linux. I just got back into using Macs (I cut my computing teeth on Macs -- Oregon Trail on a Apple ][c--what fun!) because my lady friend has an iBook G4 and I am falling for OS X and feeling that deja vu feeling at the same time, being a former NeXT user. I have yet to try Linux on the iBook but I am anxious to try (probably Debian or Gentoo). -Derek From jeffrey at tadlocks.net Fri Jun 25 09:18:21 2004 From: jeffrey at tadlocks.net (Jeffrey Tadlock) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:42 2005 Subject: [COLUG] sendmail Connection rejected: reverse DNS lookup failed In-Reply-To: <001301c45a54$fe852d70$6400a8c0@sundaram> References: <001301c45a54$fe852d70$6400a8c0@sundaram> Message-ID: <20040625131821.GA21303@tadlocks.net> On Thu, Jun 24, 2004 at 09:37:25PM -0400, sundaram wrote: > I am running sendmail for my E-mail server. We are not able to send mail > to one of our customer, we are getting reverse DNS lookup failed error > message. I checked reverse DNS lookup for my domain, output looks good. > > Here is some more information about this problem. Any tips to fix this. > > > My sendmail log file: > =============== > Jun 24 20:33:58 mail sendmail[23789]: [ID 801593 mail.info] > i5MEA3J9023025: to=<@valenciagroup.com>, ctladdr=<@ > percipia.com> (1055/10), delay=2+10:23:54, xdelay=00:01:21, > mailer=esmtp, pri=21121307, relay=mail-fwd.sbc-webhosting.com. [ > xxx.173.237.179], dsn=4.0.0, stat=Deferred: 450 : > Connection rejected: reverse DNS lookup failed Your MX records point to mail.percipia.com as MX10. mail.percipia.com points to 64.140.18.33. That IP does have a valid reverse lookup [1]. However, in the log above the IP making the connection to the sbc server is 64.140.18.38 NOT 64.140.18.33. The .38 address does not have a valid reverse lookup [2,3]. Hope that helps... Jeffrey [1] dig -x 64.140.18.33 ; <<>> DiG 9.2.1 <<>> -x 64.140.18.33 ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 47905 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 3, AUTHORITY: 2, ADDITIONAL: 2 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;33.18.140.64.in-addr.arpa. IN PTR ;; ANSWER SECTION: 33.18.140.64.in-addr.arpa. 85861 IN PTR www.percipia.com. 33.18.140.64.in-addr.arpa. 85861 IN PTR mail.percipia.com. 33.18.140.64.in-addr.arpa. 85861 IN PTR percipia.com. ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: 33.18.140.64.in-addr.arpa. 61 IN NS ns1.icg.net. 33.18.140.64.in-addr.arpa. 61 IN NS ns2.icg.net. ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: ns1.icg.net. 172676 IN A 170.147.45.165 ns2.icg.net. 172676 IN A 170.147.45.166 [2] dig -x 64.140.18.38 ; <<>> DiG 9.2.1 <<>> -x 64.140.18.38 ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 53561 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;38.18.140.64.in-addr.arpa. IN PTR [3] nslookup 64.140.18.38 Server: 69.10.150.194 Address: 69.10.150.194#53 ** server can't find 38.18.140.64.in-addr.arpa: NXDOMAIN From jonadab at bright.net Fri Jun 25 09:17:28 2004 From: jonadab at bright.net (Jonadab the Unsightly One) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:42 2005 Subject: [COLUG] SATA questions In-Reply-To: <20040625110819.GG24127%jmglov@jmglov.net> References: <40DAD5B2.6010008@osu.edu> <2571.12.29.16.103.1088084450.squirrel@12.29.16.103> <20040625015501.GA24127%jmglov@jmglov.net> <200406242228.34757.dmaxwell@columbus.rr.com> <40DB9AC1.6000200@bright.net> <20040625110819.GG24127%jmglov@jmglov.net> Message-ID: <40DC25E8.7010504@bright.net> Josh Glover wrote: > > Funny, I always thought that SCSI stood for "Small Computer System > Interface". I could be misremembering... [checks dictionary.com] Apparently, I was misremembering. I had the other three words right though ;-/ From windon at windon.net Fri Jun 25 10:40:02 2004 From: windon at windon.net (Chesley A. Windon) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:42 2005 Subject: [COLUG] sendmail Connection rejected: reverse DNS lookup failed In-Reply-To: <002801c45ab1$fbe7f310$6400a8c0@sundaram> References: <002801c45ab1$fbe7f310$6400a8c0@sundaram> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jun 2004, sundaram wrote: > Chesley, > > Mail.percipia.com is our E-mail server. Hostname is mail, it provides > SMTP services. > > Thanks > Sundaram > > -----Original Message----- > From: colug-bounces@colug.net [mailto:colug-bounces@colug.net] On Behalf > Of Chesley A. Windon > Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 11:32 PM > To: Central OH Linux User Group > Subject: Re: [COLUG] sendmail Connection rejected: reverse DNS lookup > failed > > sundaram wrote: > > I am running sendmail for my E-mail server. We are not able to send > mail > > to one of our customer, we are getting reverse DNS lookup failed error > > > message. I checked reverse DNS lookup for my domain, output looks > good. > > Is mail.percipia.com the SMTP server or is it just the MX 10? If its > just the MX 10, what is the SMTP server's hostname? > > Chesley If I remember correctly, I had an issue a few years ago where my ISP had multiple PTR records for the IP address my mail server was on. I couldn't send mail to some places, but I don't remember what the error was. I also don't remember if this is an RFC standard or not. If not, it should be ;) Looks like ICG has three PTRs set up for your IP. [windon]$ host 64.140.18.33 33.18.140.64.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer mail.percipia.com. 33.18.140.64.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer percipia.com. 33.18.140.64.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer www.percipia.com. [windon]$ dig -x 64.140.18.33 ;; ANSWER SECTION: 33.18.140.64.in-addr.arpa. 42261 IN PTR www.percipia.com. 33.18.140.64.in-addr.arpa. 42261 IN PTR mail.percipia.com. 33.18.140.64.in-addr.arpa. 42261 IN PTR percipia.com. Additionally, the RFC is broken by (1) having an MX as a CNAME, and (2) a PTR to a CNAME. Both of these should be to A records. I would start by asking ICG to correct these items to see if RoadRunner is enforcing RFCs. I hope this helps ... Chesley From WhittakT at franklin.edu Fri Jun 25 11:33:39 2004 From: WhittakT at franklin.edu (Todd Whittaker) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:42 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Looking for an experienced Linux consultant Message-ID: Hello list members, I've just subscribed because I'm looking for an experienced Linux consultant in the Columbus area. Web searches have identified a few people, but word of mouth is usually a bit better. I've got a short term project involving the setup and documentation of 4 or 5 Linux servers with some remote access software and emulation software. Having done some of this myself, I'm estimating perhaps 2 weeks work. Anybody know of a good consultant? Thanks, -- Todd A. Whittaker Program Chair, Information Technology Franklin University 614-744-3067 whittakt@franklin.edu From bruce at nerdjournal.com Fri Jun 25 11:58:41 2004 From: bruce at nerdjournal.com (Bruce Obenour) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:42 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Items still for free Message-ID: <40DC4BB1.6050809@nerdjournal.com> I still have the following items for free: - P100 w/ 32 megs of RAM needs HD - P-75 w /32 megs of RAM & 100 meg HD - 15 inch color Samsung monitor - 12 inch color monitor - Full tower case with misc. parts inside I also have a PowerMac Dual 867 / 2 Gig RAM / SuperDrive forsale if anyone is interested. Runs 10.3 plus OS9. Thanks Bruce From blata at extent0006.entomology.ohio-state.edu Fri Jun 25 13:03:33 2004 From: blata at extent0006.entomology.ohio-state.edu (Wade Pinkston) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:42 2005 Subject: [COLUG] pppoe anywhere? Message-ID: <40DC5AE5.4090800@bugs.osu.edu> I have a work invoked question regarding pppoe. If a person has a pppoe account can they go any ware within the network region and connect to there account? I do assume there has to be a modem and dsl line to connect to at the new location. If anybody has a good resource for the engineering and inter workings behind dsl/pppoe I would appreciate those links and or references. -- Wade Pinkston Ipsa scientia potestas est Windows,a 32 bit graphical interface for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit operating system internally coded for a 4 bit processor written by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition GnuPG Key ID 0x216FDD35 gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 216FDD35 From dane at olneyfriends.org Fri Jun 25 15:13:45 2004 From: dane at olneyfriends.org (Dane Miller) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:42 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Linux RAID problem In-Reply-To: <1088109503.873.74.camel@opus> References: <1088109503.873.74.camel@opus> Message-ID: <1088190825.769.27.camel@opus> Here's an update. Thanks Joshua, Jonadab, and Tom for your replies and suggestions. I upgraded the kernel from 2.4.20 to 2.4.26 and am still in the process of testing, but so far it looks better. The computer made it through a full backup without any problems. I'm not sure why kernel 2.4.20 would work for the first 6 months of this computer's life before causing problems... a puzzle. My gut says it's a sign of an underlying hardware problem. Maybe IDE controller problems (Jonadab) or power drain from non-essential components (Joshua). I will continue testing and keep you posted. Dane On Thu, 2004-06-24 at 16:38, Dane Miller wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm hoping someone might have some ideas about a frustrating server > problem I am experiencing. My log files are recording nothing out of > the ordinary and I can predictably crash my server... ouch :( > > Recently, whenever I do a full backup of /home on the server, about > fifteen minutes into the backup the server completely locks up. No ping > response, no console access, unable to wake monitor from power saving > mode. So I do a hard power-off. > > /home lives on a software RAID 1 array of 3 80gb Western Digital ATA100 > disks (2 active disks + 1 spare). When I reboot the box the RAID 1 > mirror has to be rebuilt. The specific error message in dmesg is "md: > md0: raid array is not clean -- starting background reconstruction" > > I am performing the backup with ssh, tar, and gzip over the network. > > This problem started earlier this month and after repeated crashes, > caused hardware failure in the two active 80gb disks. Since then, I've > replaced the power supply and the two active disks. > > The server is a Libranet 2.8.1 Debian Sarge/Unstable box. Kernel > 2.4.20. raidtools-1.00.3 > > Any thoughts? Hardware? Software? > > Any suggestions would be really appreciated. > > Thanks, > Dane > > _______________________________________________ > colug mailing list > colug@colug.net > http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug > From bruce at nerdjournal.com Fri Jun 25 16:18:01 2004 From: bruce at nerdjournal.com (Bruce Obenour) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:42 2005 Subject: [COLUG] GMail invites Message-ID: <40DC8879.6030303@nerdjournal.com> Anyone who wants a GMail invite just pass me your name and e-mail and I will send one over. I have two and more to come. Bruce From vrman at bourbaki.us Fri Jun 25 19:13:19 2004 From: vrman at bourbaki.us (Richard J. Mancusi) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:42 2005 Subject: [COLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: <40DC8879.6030303@nerdjournal.com> References: <40DC8879.6030303@nerdjournal.com> Message-ID: <40DCB18F.6060408@bourbaki.us> If you have an extra, I would appreciate it. tnx Rich Bruce Obenour wrote: > Anyone who wants a GMail invite just pass me your name and e-mail and I > will send one over. I have two and more to come. > > Bruce > _______________________________________________ > colug mailing list > colug@colug.net > http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug > From rjewell at gmail.com Fri Jun 25 21:34:25 2004 From: rjewell at gmail.com (Robert Jewell) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:42 2005 Subject: [COLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: <40DC8879.6030303@nerdjournal.com> References: <40DC8879.6030303@nerdjournal.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 16:18:01 -0400, Bruce Obenour wrote: > > Anyone who wants a GMail invite just pass me your name and e-mail > and I will send one over. I have two and more to come. > > Bruce (I've got a few, also.. they have no homes.. just sitting there all lonely and sad. Don't be afraid to ask.) -- Robert Jewell From gordon.mott at gmail.com Fri Jun 25 21:51:45 2004 From: gordon.mott at gmail.com (Gordon Mott) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:42 2005 Subject: [COLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: References: <40DC8879.6030303@nerdjournal.com> Message-ID: <2ee98d280406251851216d3d12@mail.gmail.com> I also have six invites. They're free for the taking. -Gordon On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 21:34:25 -0400, Robert Jewell wrote: > > On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 16:18:01 -0400, Bruce Obenour wrote: > > > > Anyone who wants a GMail invite just pass me your name and e-mail > > and I will send one over. I have two and more to come. > > > > Bruce > > (I've got a few, also.. they have no homes.. just sitting there all > lonely and sad. Don't be afraid to ask.) > > -- > Robert Jewell > > > _______________________________________________ > colug mailing list > colug@colug.net > http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Gordon A. Mott The BAMF Corporation PICK/Unix Systems Group Rivercliff Road (614) 271-5131 Columbus, OH 43223 gordon.mott@gmail.com PICK|UNIX|PERL|PHP open(OUT, ">$home/.signature") || die "Sig files suck, anyways...\n"; From debateable at ameritech.net Fri Jun 25 23:24:44 2004 From: debateable at ameritech.net (Jason Carr) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:43 2005 Subject: [COLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: <40DC8879.6030303@nerdjournal.com> References: <40DC8879.6030303@nerdjournal.com> Message-ID: <40DCEC7C.9070101@ameritech.net> I'll take one from Mr. Mott over there, just so I don't get multiples :-P - Thanks a ton. Jason Bruce Obenour wrote: > Anyone who wants a GMail invite just pass me your name and e-mail and > I will send one over. I have two and more to come. > > Bruce > _______________________________________________ > colug mailing list > colug@colug.net > http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug > From gordon.mott at gmail.com Fri Jun 25 23:33:40 2004 From: gordon.mott at gmail.com (Gordon Mott) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:43 2005 Subject: [COLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: <40DCEC7C.9070101@ameritech.net> References: <40DC8879.6030303@nerdjournal.com> <40DCEC7C.9070101@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <2ee98d2804062520337ee385c0@mail.gmail.com> Just ran out. Sorry, man. On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 23:24:44 -0400, Jason Carr wrote: > > I'll take one from Mr. Mott over there, just so I don't get multiples > :-P - Thanks a ton. > > Jason > > > > Bruce Obenour wrote: > > > Anyone who wants a GMail invite just pass me your name and e-mail and > > I will send one over. I have two and more to come. > > > > Bruce > > _______________________________________________ > > colug mailing list > > colug@colug.net > > http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug > > > > _______________________________________________ > colug mailing list > colug@colug.net > http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Gordon A. Mott The BAMF Corporation PICK/Unix Systems Group Rivercliff Road (614) 271-5131 Columbus, OH 43223 gordon.mott@gmail.com PICK|UNIX|PERL|PHP open(OUT, ">$home/.signature") || die "Sig files suck, anyways...\n"; From skippy at skippy.net Fri Jun 25 23:46:48 2004 From: skippy at skippy.net (Scott Merrill) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:43 2005 Subject: [COLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: <2ee98d2804062520337ee385c0@mail.gmail.com> References: <40DC8879.6030303@nerdjournal.com> <40DCEC7C.9070101@ameritech.net> <2ee98d2804062520337ee385c0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <40DCF1A8.2030602@skippy.net> I sent Jason an invite. Gordon Mott wrote: > Just ran out. Sorry, man. > > On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 23:24:44 -0400, Jason Carr wrote: > >>I'll take one from Mr. Mott over there, just so I don't get multiples >>:-P - Thanks a ton. >> >>Jason >> >> >> >>Bruce Obenour wrote: >> >> >>>Anyone who wants a GMail invite just pass me your name and e-mail and >>>I will send one over. I have two and more to come. From debateable at ameritech.net Fri Jun 25 23:39:16 2004 From: debateable at ameritech.net (Jason Carr) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:43 2005 Subject: [COLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: <2ee98d2804062520337ee385c0@mail.gmail.com> References: <40DC8879.6030303@nerdjournal.com> <40DCEC7C.9070101@ameritech.net> <2ee98d2804062520337ee385c0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <40DCEFE4.3060702@ameritech.net> Lol, okay, who's giving me one? :-P. Jason Gordon Mott wrote: >Just ran out. Sorry, man. > >On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 23:24:44 -0400, Jason Carr wrote: > > >>I'll take one from Mr. Mott over there, just so I don't get multiples >>:-P - Thanks a ton. >> >>Jason >> >> >> >>Bruce Obenour wrote: >> >> >> >>>Anyone who wants a GMail invite just pass me your name and e-mail and >>>I will send one over. I have two and more to come. >>> >>>Bruce >>>_______________________________________________ >>>colug mailing list >>>colug@colug.net >>>http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>colug mailing list >>colug@colug.net >>http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug >> >> >> > > > > From tnoe at mailsnare.net Fri Jun 25 23:48:56 2004 From: tnoe at mailsnare.net (Thomas J. Noe) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:43 2005 Subject: [COLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: <40DC8879.6030303@nerdjournal.com> References: <40DC8879.6030303@nerdjournal.com> Message-ID: <200406252348.56891.tnoe@mailsnare.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 For those who are so inclined, this may be a good way to get rid of any extra invitations. http://www.gmail4troops.com/ - -- Best wishes, Tom E: tnoe AT mailsnare DOT net P: tnoe AT vtext DOT com GPG keyID 0x9ACE08E1 gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 9ACE08E1 On Friday 25 June 2004 16:18, Bruce Obenour wrote: > Anyone who wants a GMail invite just pass me your name and e-mail > and I will send one over. I have two and more to come. > > Bruce > _______________________________________________ > colug mailing list > colug@colug.net > http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFA3PIoNFfoH5OP+5oRAngbAKC5qIWe/axw9BroIvu7WowotyeB9wCeM56Q cOF2kA2Q0k9RqJ6ptkzYrAk= =CF5m -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gordon.mott at gmail.com Fri Jun 25 23:50:10 2004 From: gordon.mott at gmail.com (Gordon Mott) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:43 2005 Subject: [COLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: <40DCEFE4.3060702@ameritech.net> References: <40DC8879.6030303@nerdjournal.com> <40DCEC7C.9070101@ameritech.net> <2ee98d2804062520337ee385c0@mail.gmail.com> <40DCEFE4.3060702@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <2ee98d2804062520507c19bc6b@mail.gmail.com> LOL. I just had someone back out, and I sent him that person's invite.. So now he has two. =) -Gordon On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 23:39:16 -0400, Jason Carr wrote: > > Lol, okay, who's giving me one? :-P. > > Jason > > > > Gordon Mott wrote: > > >Just ran out. Sorry, man. > > > >On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 23:24:44 -0400, Jason Carr wrote: > > > > > >>I'll take one from Mr. Mott over there, just so I don't get multiples > >>:-P - Thanks a ton. > >> > >>Jason > >> > >> > >> > >>Bruce Obenour wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>Anyone who wants a GMail invite just pass me your name and e-mail and > >>>I will send one over. I have two and more to come. > >>> > >>>Bruce > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>colug mailing list > >>>colug@colug.net > >>>http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>colug mailing list > >>colug@colug.net > >>http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > colug mailing list > colug@colug.net > http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Gordon A. Mott The BAMF Corporation PICK/Unix Systems Group Rivercliff Road (614) 271-5131 Columbus, OH 43223 gordon.mott@gmail.com PICK|UNIX|PERL|PHP open(OUT, ">$home/.signature") || die "Sig files suck, anyways...\n"; From jim at rossberry.com Fri Jun 25 23:59:55 2004 From: jim at rossberry.com (Jim Wildman) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:43 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Re: June meeting In-Reply-To: <824C8AAC-C65C-11D8-A619-00039317745E@functionalmedia.com> References: <824C8AAC-C65C-11D8-A619-00039317745E@functionalmedia.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jun 2004, tom hanlon wrote: > Come to think of it can we put my whole life into CVS so I can roll > back to my last working configuration ?? so your life is stable enough to commit? And make dep;make world;make install actually works???? Wow. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jim Wildman, CISSP, RHCE jim@rossberry.com http://www.rossberry.com "Our political way of life is by the laws of nature, of nature's God, and of course presupposes the existence of God, the moral ruler of the universe, and a rule of right and wrong, of just and unjust, binding upon man, preceding all institutions of human society and government." John Quincy Adamns From sfgroups at sbcglobal.net Sat Jun 26 03:05:52 2004 From: sfgroups at sbcglobal.net (sundaram) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:43 2005 Subject: [COLUG] No Contract Wireless Phone advice Message-ID: <000001c45b4c$051d87c0$6400a8c0@sundaram> Hi all, I am looking for a Wireless phone with no contract; I need this phone for three to four months (only for emergence use). Any recommendation for this wireless phone. Thanks SR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.colug.net/pipermail/colug/attachments/20040626/f6b8f441/attachment.htm From archanoid at columbus.rr.com Sat Jun 26 09:20:23 2004 From: archanoid at columbus.rr.com (archanoid@columbus.rr.com) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:43 2005 Subject: [COLUG] GMail invites Message-ID: <17b238117b2065.17b206517b2381@columbus.rr.com> If anybody's got any invites left, I'd like one. -Aaron From coescove at columbus.rr.com Sat Jun 26 09:31:46 2004 From: coescove at columbus.rr.com (Coe's Cove) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:43 2005 Subject: [COLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: <40DC8879.6030303@nerdjournal.com> References: <40DC8879.6030303@nerdjournal.com> Message-ID: <40DD7AC2.3020403@columbus.rr.com> I'd appreciate one. Thanks Bob Bruce Obenour wrote: > Anyone who wants a GMail invite just pass me your name and e-mail and > I will send one over. I have two and more to come. > > Bruce > _______________________________________________ > colug mailing list > colug@colug.net > http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug > From archanoid at columbus.rr.com Sat Jun 26 09:25:00 2004 From: archanoid at columbus.rr.com (archanoid@columbus.rr.com) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:43 2005 Subject: [COLUG] No Contract Wireless Phone advice Message-ID: <17b3fa817b3381.17b338117b3fa8@columbus.rr.com> Virgin Mobile. I bought one for my wife. Minimum $20 every three months. If you use it very little, there's no better option (imho). All the other prepaids need at least $10-20/month to keep them active. Virgin doesn't have the best rate ($0.25/min for the first 10 minutes of usage per day, $0.10 thereafter), but the lack of a $$$ minimum per month made it an attractive option. It uses the Sprint PCS network. Oh, and incoming text messages are free. So I can send my wife text messages all day long for no cost. check them out at www.virginmobileusa.com -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ colug mailing list colug@colug.net http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug From lshurr at columbus.rr.com Sat Jun 26 11:05:51 2004 From: lshurr at columbus.rr.com (Larry A. Shurr) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:43 2005 Subject: [COLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: <40DC8879.6030303@nerdjournal.com> References: <40DC8879.6030303@nerdjournal.com> Message-ID: <40DD90CF.6020902@columbus.rr.com> Bruce Obenour wrote: > Anyone who wants a GMail invite just pass me your name and e-mail and I > will send one over. I have two and more to come. Anyone still have aGmail invite they'll send me? If so, please do. Many thanks, Larry -- Larry A. Shurr (lshurr@columbus.rr.com) From rjewell at gmail.com Sat Jun 26 13:13:59 2004 From: rjewell at gmail.com (Robert Jewell) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:43 2005 Subject: [COLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: <40DD90CF.6020902@columbus.rr.com> References: <40DC8879.6030303@nerdjournal.com> <40DD90CF.6020902@columbus.rr.com> Message-ID: I sent an invite to: archanoid@columbus.rr.rcom coescove@columbus.rr.com lshurr@columbus.rr.com -- Robert Jewell From coescove at columbus.rr.com Sat Jun 26 13:50:04 2004 From: coescove at columbus.rr.com (Coe's Cove) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:43 2005 Subject: [COLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: References: <40DC8879.6030303@nerdjournal.com> <40DD90CF.6020902@columbus.rr.com> Message-ID: <40DDB74C.70700@columbus.rr.com> Thank you!! 8-) Bob Robert Jewell wrote: >I sent an invite to: >archanoid@columbus.rr.rcom >coescove@columbus.rr.com >lshurr@columbus.rr.com > >-- >Robert Jewell >_______________________________________________ >colug mailing list >colug@colug.net >http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug > > > From rjones at salientsystems.com Sat Jun 26 14:19:12 2004 From: rjones at salientsystems.com (Robert S. Jones) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:43 2005 Subject: [COLUG] GMail invites References: <40DC8879.6030303@nerdjournal.com> <40DCEC7C.9070101@ameritech.net> <2ee98d2804062520337ee385c0@mail.gmail.com> <40DCEFE4.3060702@ameritech.net> <2ee98d2804062520507c19bc6b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <40DDBE20.30001@salientsystems.com> I haven't posted in several years, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like an invite...if there's still one lying around. Rob Gordon Mott wrote: > LOL. I just had someone back out, and I sent him that person's > invite.. So now he has two. =) > > -Gordon > > On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 23:39:16 -0400, Jason Carr wrote: > >>Lol, okay, who's giving me one? :-P. >> >>Jason >> >> >> >>Gordon Mott wrote: >> >> >>>Just ran out. Sorry, man. >>> >>>On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 23:24:44 -0400, Jason Carr wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>I'll take one from Mr. Mott over there, just so I don't get multiples >>>>:-P - Thanks a ton. >>>> >>>>Jason >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Bruce Obenour wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Anyone who wants a GMail invite just pass me your name and e-mail and >>>>>I will send one over. I have two and more to come. >>>>> >>>>>Bruce >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>colug mailing list >>>>>colug@colug.net >>>>>http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>colug mailing list >>>>colug@colug.net >>>>http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>colug mailing list >>colug@colug.net >>http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug >> > > > From kb8rln at penguinmaster.com Sat Jun 26 13:46:22 2004 From: kb8rln at penguinmaster.com (Richard Rager) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:43 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Looking for an experienced Linux consultant In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Look at me http://penguinman.com/resume Richard Rager From rjewell at gmail.com Sun Jun 27 06:17:35 2004 From: rjewell at gmail.com (Robert Jewell) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:43 2005 Subject: [COLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: <40DDBE20.30001@salientsystems.com> References: <40DC8879.6030303@nerdjournal.com> <40DCEC7C.9070101@ameritech.net> <2ee98d2804062520337ee385c0@mail.gmail.com> <40DCEFE4.3060702@ameritech.net> <2ee98d2804062520507c19bc6b@mail.gmail.com> <40DDBE20.30001@salientsystems.com> Message-ID: sorry, i'm fresh out. I've got a to-invite-gmail.txt file, and you're in it.. if i get more. :) On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 14:19:12 -0400, Robert S. Jones wrote: > > I haven't posted in several years, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like > an invite...if there's still one lying around. > > Rob From colug at jmglov.net Sun Jun 27 07:33:21 2004 From: colug at jmglov.net (Josh Glover) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:44 2005 Subject: [COLUG] June Meeting Recap In-Reply-To: <35601.216.136.35.122.1087852895.squirrel@www.skippy.net> References: <35601.216.136.35.122.1087852895.squirrel@www.skippy.net> Message-ID: <20040627113321.GB13489%jmglov@jmglov.net> Quoth Scott Merrill (Mon 2004-06-21 05:21:35PM -0400): > MEETING NOTICE > ============== > Central Ohio Linux Users Group > > Date: Saturday, 26 June, 1:00 to 3:00 PM local > > Meeting Presentation > ==================== > 1. Introduction to CVS (Josh Glover) > 2. Using CVS to Manage a Software Project (Josh Glover) > 3. Using CVS to Manage Config Files (Josh Glover and Jim Wildman) As those of you who made it to the meeting know, I was dreadfully long- winded and we thus only made it through (1) and (2). Jim, I hope you will forgive me, and also hope that you can present (3) at the next meeting. I think config file management is a great application for CVS! The OOo presentation that I put together on (1) is available here: http://www.jmglov.net/unix/presentations/ It is called "Introduction to CVS", and is available in HTML, OOo Impress format, and PDF. All three files are provided under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/ I will go ahead and complete the presentation for (2) and publish it in the same location under the same licence. I will try to get this done this week, but no promises. :) My CVS scripts are here: http://www.jmglov.net/unix/scripts/ cvs-add schedules a directory for addition recursively (i.e. the dir and all of its files and subdirs are added). cvs-lock locks any directory tree in the CVS repository, so you can rename files, run backups, enforce a commit freeze, etc. cvs-status simply pipes the output of 'cvs status' to "grep 'Status: [^U]'", which has the effect of only showing the files that are not up-to-date. cvs-unlock unlocks any directory tree in the CVS repository that has been locked with cvs-lock. All of these scripts are provided under the BSD licence. I mentioned two dead-tree references. For users, the _CVS Pocket Reference_ is just the thing: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/cvspr2/ Micro Center often has loads of these in the bargain books section, though they are First Edition. Frankly, I find my First Edition very useful, and you cannot beat $1.99! :) For CVS administrators (or advanced CVS users), you must buy _Essential CVS_: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/cvs/ WRT Phil Hunter's security concerns, here is an announcement of the CVS pserver vuln: http://www.packetstormsecurity.org/0405-exploits/cvs_linux_freebsd_HEAP.c And here is the CAN statement: http://www.cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CAN-2004-0396 Phil is right in advising that no-one run remote pserver, even anonymous. Consider cvsweb[1] or some other tool for anonymous CVS access. I made mention of the overlap between Unix and Zen/Daoist philosophy. Here is Eric S. Raymond's collection of Unix koans: http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/unix-koans/ Also check out his latest book, _The Art of Unix Programming_: http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/ Not only is it tasty, it features a scene straight out of Chinese history on the cover and makes much of the Zen/Unix connexion. And don't miss The Jargon File, which should be *the* reference for acronyms and hacker-speak: http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/ -Josh [1] http://www.freebsd.org/projects/cvsweb.html -- Josh Glover Gentoo Developer (http://dev.gentoo.org/~jmglov/) Tokyo Linux Users Group Listmaster (http://www.tlug.jp/) GPG keyID 0xDE8A3103 (C3E4 FA9E 1E07 BBDB 6D8B 07AB 2BF1 67A1 DE8A 3103) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys DE8A3103 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.colug.net/pipermail/colug/attachments/20040627/671e96d4/attachment.bin From dollzerr at iwaynet.net Sun Jun 27 09:58:31 2004 From: dollzerr at iwaynet.net (Jess Balint) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:44 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Re: mail filter In-Reply-To: <20040621020702.50207.qmail@web51810.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040621020702.50207.qmail@web51810.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40DED287.8040607@iwaynet.net> Well thanks to whoever added the "[COLUG]" and fixing the reply-to address. I had already changed the way I recognized the emails, but I'm sure it'll make a worlds difference to those who didn't. ~ Jess peter kukla wrote: > The [COLUG] tag in the subject is something I'd like > to see return, too. Since I haven't done much to > contribute towards management of the group hitherto, I > probably don't have much right to whine about this, so > take or ignore my comments as you see fit. > > The answer to questions about the [COLUG] tag seem to > be "find another way to filter COLUG messages." > Usually this answer is accompanied by friendly advice > on what/how to filter, but that's the gist of it. I'm > not sure whether the folks in charge of the list have > decided to go with the current config, but it seems > that may be the case. > > In my (probably incorrect) opinion, an IT system that > provides output (mailing list, mainframe program, you > name it) should not arbitrarily change its output and > expect downstream systems to conform to the new > system. > > Besides...I've gotten used to visually picking COLUG > messages out of the clutter in my mailbox. > > > > -peter > > > > > >>Floyd Absher wrote: >> >>>Any idea when the mail subject line is going to be >> >>fixed? I used to be >> >>>able to pre-sort my email with the [COLUG] subject >> >>tag, but this has >> >>>been missing for a while. >>> >>> >>> >>> -Floyd > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > colug mailing list > colug@colug.net > http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug > > From dollzerr at iwaynet.net Sun Jun 27 10:09:03 2004 From: dollzerr at iwaynet.net (Jess Balint) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:44 2005 Subject: [COLUG] A perplexing problem In-Reply-To: <20040624184404.7cc3341f@Samuel.bigbobs.org> References: <20040624184404.7cc3341f@Samuel.bigbobs.org> Message-ID: <40DED4FF.7080502@iwaynet.net> Robb - Sounds like fun. Maybe you should check out LFS - Linux From Scratch. They explain this whole process is great detail. The way that you get make,gcc and the others is to "bootstrap" them from your system. That's how the stuff was originally created. As for UML, it's quite slow and because of that it has a limited number of uses right now, IMHO. I wouldn't recommend trying to compile a whole distro under it. It would probably be better to dual boot. I think the compile flags you may be referring to are actually what is called "cross-compiling". They allow you to compile for another processor architecture, eg. Intel -> PowerPC. In this case, you have to bootstrap a cross compiler from your current compiler. Also, if you wanna try something a little less (or more depending on how you look at things) painful, try ROCK Linux. They offer what they call a "distribution build kit". It's basically a bunch of scripts that configure, build all the packages and builds a distribution. It's highly customizable and made to be built by other people besides them. ~ Jess Robb Bossley wrote: > I have been messing around with uml, as well as toying with the idea of making my own "distro", simply for the learning experience - yes, I am pretty crazy. My understanding is that most of the main utilities can be compiled from source on an already existing system, and some type of flag can be given during the compile process to cause the compiler to understand that the target "system" is a mounted filesystem other than the one currently being used. Is this true? If so, is this a somewhat standard flag? How would it normally be invoked? It seems that doing this type of build from source process is like the chicken and the egg - one cannot compile unless one has the make, gcc, glibc, etc, but one must compile these to have them. > > Any help is appreciated. > > Robb > _______________________________________________ > colug mailing list > colug@colug.net > http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug > > From adwyer at io.com Sun Jun 27 10:42:53 2004 From: adwyer at io.com (Andy Ingraham Dwyer) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:44 2005 Subject: [COLUG] No Contract Wireless Phone advice In-Reply-To: <200406261600.i5QG03Pb020736@stones.wcbe.org> Message-ID: We went with Verizon. $100 for the phone, then $30 every other month. $.40/min is the worst rate, $.10 is the best. Rates vary based on time-of-day, roaming, calling other verizon mobile, etc.. Got $50 worth of free time when we signed up, plus they sometimes give me extra night/weekend minutes when I add money via credit-card through customer-service (as opposed to buying a card at the Kroger). Text & internet are extra, but I have no interest in them. Coverage has been excellent. Driving to/from Washington DC, I think we were only in "roaming" in a couple of small areas around West Virginia. Larger swaths of roaming to/from Milwaukee, particularly along US 30 from Fort Wayne to the edge of greater Chicagland. But even while roaming, the call quality was quite good. My siter-in-law got a Trac-phone. Initial cost and rates are a bit cheaper, but the quality when roaming is horrible. Almost 50% of roaming calls are completely unintelligible. If you can manage to recognize that and kill the call before the first 45 seconds are up, you don't get dinged for it. I don't know what network they use. -Andy -- Those who bite the hand that feeds them sooner or later must meet the big dentist From jim at rossberry.com Sun Jun 27 11:08:31 2004 From: jim at rossberry.com (Jim Wildman) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:44 2005 Subject: [COLUG] June Meeting Recap In-Reply-To: <20040627113321.GB13489%jmglov@jmglov.net> References: <35601.216.136.35.122.1087852895.squirrel@www.skippy.net> <20040627113321.GB13489%jmglov@jmglov.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Jun 2004, Josh Glover wrote: > As those of you who made it to the meeting know, I was dreadfully long- > winded and we thus only made it through (1) and (2). Jim, I hope you > will forgive me, and also hope that you can present (3) at the next > meeting. I think config file management is a great application for > CVS! > No problem. I had other commitments and needed to get going. We'll queue it up for next month and I'll see it I can make it to 2 in a row. I'm going to post a description of the materials I left to the list. I realized as I was listening to you that I had done some non-obvious things for some non-obvious reasons. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jim Wildman, CISSP, RHCE jim@rossberry.com http://www.rossberry.com "Our political way of life is by the laws of nature, of nature's God, and of course presupposes the existence of God, the moral ruler of the universe, and a rule of right and wrong, of just and unjust, binding upon man, preceding all institutions of human society and government." John Quincy Adamns From dshermin at ameritech.net Mon Jun 28 05:11:04 2004 From: dshermin at ameritech.net (David Sherman) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:44 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Real Player for Linux according to the New York Times 6/28/04 In-Reply-To: <20020918000732.I3047@linuxcolumbus.com> References: <20020918022923.GB29495@quillandmouse.com> <20020918000732.I3047@linuxcolumbus.com> Message-ID: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- June 28, 2004 One Small Step in Uphill Fight as Linux Adds a Media Player By STEVE LOHR NU Linux, the free computer operating system, has had far more success in winning converts in corporate data centers than on desktop personal computers. But as more user-friendly software makes its way onto the Linux desktop, the free operating system is starting to make progress in its David-vs.-Goliath competition against Microsoft, the dominant power in PC software. Another step in the progress of Linux in personal computers will come today, when two large Linux distributors, Red Hat and Novell, are expected to announce that they will ship the media-playing software of RealNetworks in their Linux desktop products. RealNetworks, founded by Rob Glaser, a former Microsoft executive, was the early leader in software for playing digital music and video files sent over the Internet. Its media-playing software competes with Microsoft's Windows Media Player. That rivalry has become an antitrust issue, and the European Commission ruled in March that Microsoft was illegally using its Windows monopoly in PC operating systems to try to control the market for media-playing software. The commission ordered Microsoft to offer a version of Windows without a media player - a ruling Microsoft is appealing. Yesterday, the European Commission agreed not to enforce a deadline of today that would have forced Microsoft to sell the unbundled version in Europe, while a court in Luxembourg considers the matter. RealNetworks had previously reached distribution agreements with TurboLinux, which is strong in Asian markets, and Sun Microsystems, whose Java desktop software runs on Linux. "Linux is making rapid progress on the desktop, and this makes our technology the de facto standard for media-playing software on Linux," said Dan Sheeran, a senior vice president at RealNetworks. The media software, RealPlayer 10 for Linux, represents an evolution of RealNetworks' embrace of open-source software. Under the open-source model of development, the source code is published and shared by programmers, who modify and improve a program. Two years ago, RealNetworks started an open-source project, called Helix, mainly to develop media-playing software for devices like cellphones and digital music players. RealPlayer for Linux builds on Helix, but also includes some proprietary software formats known as codecs, for compressing and decompressing digital music and video files. Open-source advocates are trying to get the same kind of self-reinforcing cycle working for Linux that Microsoft has nurtured for years around Windows. The more popular the operating system becomes, the more applications are written to run on that operating system, which in turn makes the operating system still more popular. Linux has a geeky heritage - an operating system developed by engineers for engineers - and it has been embraced first by technicians in corporate data centers rather than on the desktop, where acceptance depends on developing applications that ordinary PC users find appealing and easy to use. But open-source supporters hope that the RealNetworks announcement will be followed by others. "We think this is a great example of the many mainstream products that you will see made available much sooner than most people had expected for Linux on the desktop," said Stuart Cohen, chief executive of the Open Source Development Labs, a group established to promote the use of Linux and other open-source software, which is backed by several technology companies including I.B.M. and Hewlett-Packard. For the Linux desktop, a number of applications are already available and more are in development. These include word processing, spreadsheet, database presentation, e-mail and Web browsing software. "For 80 percent of the people in the world, Linux is now a perfectly fine desktop environment," a leading open-source advocate, Bruce Perens, said. Linux distributors like Red Hat, whose chief executive is Matthew J. Szulik, make money charging for technical support and software beyond the basic operating system. The RealNetworks move is evidence that leading commercial software companies believe that Linux is poised for rapid growth on the desktop, said Mike Evans, vice president for partner development at Red Hat. Though Linux on the desktop is making gains, it has a long, long way to go to challenge Microsoft, which has built its PC stronghold over more than two decades. By the end of the year, Linux will be running on 1 percent of the desktop PC's worldwide, compared with 2.8 percent for Apple's Macintosh, and 96 percent for Microsoft's Windows, according to Gartner Inc., a research firm. Linux does far better overseas than in the United States, and most analysts expect that Linux is on track to overtake Macintosh over the next several years. "The Real announcement is important to improving the overall Linux desktop experience," said Michael Silver, a Gartner analyst. "But Linux on the desktop is still relatively small. There is a lot of interest in it, but it's not mainstream." Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company | Home | Privacy Policy | Search | Corrections | Help | Back to Top From whooper at freeshell.org Mon Jun 28 08:53:09 2004 From: whooper at freeshell.org (William Hooper) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:44 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Real Player for Linux according to the New York Times 6/28/04 In-Reply-To: References: <20020918022923.GB29495@quillandmouse.com> <20020918000732.I3047@linuxcolumbus.com> Message-ID: <1100.12.29.16.103.1088427189.squirrel@12.29.16.103> David Sherman said: > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > > > June 28, 2004 > One Small Step in Uphill Fight as Linux Adds a Media Player They must have missed RH's "Red Hat Desktop" product, which has been out for about a month and ships Real Player (and Flash, and Java, etc.) http://www.redhat.com/software/rhel/desktop/ -- William Hooper From dean at dufresneit.com Mon Jun 28 09:19:49 2004 From: dean at dufresneit.com (dean@dufresneit.com) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:44 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Looking for an experienced Linux consultant Message-ID: <20040628131949.6150.qmail@webmail07.mesa1.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.colug.net/pipermail/colug/attachments/20040628/5650345b/attachment.htm From ken at alpha2.com Mon Jun 28 09:44:15 2004 From: ken at alpha2.com (Ken Bradford) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:44 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Bashing your brains out with these tests In-Reply-To: <20040625224143.13d09115.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> Message-ID: <05a001c45d16$00cfd260$690aa8c0@alpha2.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim [mailto:jep200404@columbus.rr.com] > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 10:42 PM > To: ken@alpha2.com > Subject: Re: [COLUG] Bashing your brains out with these tests > Importance: High > > > > > For portability, you might want to avoid the BASH > > > > > and use only the Bourne [. > > > > If I can do the same thing with [ as I can with [[. > > I expect that you can, but I don't know how much effort it will > take to do with just [ instead of [[. Obviously, one expects it > to be easier with [[, otherwise, the [[ command wouldn't exist. > > > Is it really much of an > > issue though when I start my scripts with "#!/bin/sh"? > > I think it is an issue. > > > Or does "#!/bin/sh" not _always_ mean bash, like I've been told? > > /bin/sh can be a shell other than bash. > It's certainly common on mainline Linux distros for /bin/sh to be bash, > but that's not a requirement. > > If you begin your scripts with "#!/bin/sh", I think you can presume > bourne shell functionality, but not bash functionality. > If you rely on bash functionality, then beginning your script with > "#!/bin/bash" would be better. > > http://www.google.com/search?q=%2Fbin%2Fsh+bash > > Portability is a good thing. Agreed, so _if_ I am going to use [[ ]], the I really should start the script with "#!/bin/bash". > > The grammar of [[ != ]] && [[ != ]] is interesting. > Is it one big [[ command, or is it two [[ commands, > where the second [[ command is executed conditionally > upon the "success" of the first command? > How does the shell know if && is an argument to the [[ command, > or if && is a shell thing? Good questions. I believe your right about the second [[ command being executed conditionally upon the "success" of the first command. Ken Bradford Alpha II Service, Inc. From jep200404 at columbus.rr.com Mon Jun 28 12:26:39 2004 From: jep200404 at columbus.rr.com (Jim) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:44 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Portability of shell scripts In-Reply-To: <05a001c45d16$00cfd260$690aa8c0@alpha2.com> References: <20040625224143.13d09115.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> <05a001c45d16$00cfd260$690aa8c0@alpha2.com> Message-ID: <20040628122639.1187fbc6.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> Ken Bradford wrote: You replied: > > Portability is a good thing. > > Agreed, so _if_ I am going to use [[ ]], the I really should start the > script with "#!/bin/bash". There are two separate issues. If your script is using non-bourne features of bash then it should specify /bin/bash rather than just /bin/sh. This is only tangentially related to portability. If the system doesn't have bash, your script won't work regardless of how you specify the shell. To make your script more portable, it should not rely on non-bourne features of bash. You should use only plain bourne shell capabilities. This is substantive portability and is good. > > The grammar of [[ != ]] && [[ != ]] is interesting. > > Is it one big [[ command, or is it two [[ commands, > > where the second [[ command is executed conditionally > > upon the "success" of the first command? > > How does the shell know if && is an argument to the [[ command, > > or if && is a shell thing? > > Good questions. And that's all that they were. > I believe your right about the second [[ command being > executed conditionally upon the "success" of the first command. You read more into what I wrote than I either wrote or meant. My questions were not rhetorical. I did not give or even hint at the answers. I do not know that the second [[ is a command executed conditionally upon the sucess of the first [[ command. Jim From Matthew.Bond at gahanna.gov Mon Jun 28 12:38:29 2004 From: Matthew.Bond at gahanna.gov (Matthew Bond) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:44 2005 Subject: [COLUG] GMail invites Message-ID: <09FD61D8173F8A449503AC8D56F0E2432E39CF@be-02.gahanna.gov> It seems I missed the GMAIL boat while I was on vacation last week, but if someone would keep me in mind when they get more invites it would be much appreciated. -----Original Message----- From: colug-bounces@colug.net [mailto:colug-bounces@colug.net] On Behalf Of Robert Jewell Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2004 6:18 AM To: Central OH Linux User Group Subject: Re: [COLUG] GMail invites sorry, i'm fresh out. I've got a to-invite-gmail.txt file, and you're in it.. if i get more. :) On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 14:19:12 -0400, Robert S. Jones wrote: > > I haven't posted in several years, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like > an invite...if there's still one lying around. > > Rob _______________________________________________ colug mailing list colug@colug.net http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug From pjensen at google.com Mon Jun 28 12:53:31 2004 From: pjensen at google.com (Phil Jensen) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:44 2005 Subject: [COLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: <09FD61D8173F8A449503AC8D56F0E2432E39CF@be-02.gahanna.gov> References: <09FD61D8173F8A449503AC8D56F0E2432E39CF@be-02.gahanna.gov> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jun 2004, Matthew Bond wrote: > It seems I missed the GMAIL boat while I was on vacation last week, but > if someone would keep me in mind when they get more invites it would be > much appreciated. I still lurk on this list, although I moved to CA 47 months ago. It took me a while to get set up to send out Gmail invitations, but I have a healthy number available now. I'll send one to Matthew, and if there are other lists of COLUGers waiting, let me know. Phil pjensen@google.com From brian at bluedogs-online.com Mon Jun 28 13:40:05 2004 From: brian at bluedogs-online.com (Brian Morgan) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:44 2005 Subject: [COLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: References: <09FD61D8173F8A449503AC8D56F0E2432E39CF@be-02.gahanna.gov> Message-ID: <40E057F5.1050109@bluedogs-online.com> Phil Jensen wrote: >On Mon, 28 Jun 2004, Matthew Bond wrote: > >>It seems I missed the GMAIL boat while I was on vacation last week, but >>if someone would keep me in mind when they get more invites it would be >>much appreciated. >> >> >I still lurk on this list, although I moved to CA 47 months ago. >It took me a while to get set up to send out Gmail invitations, >but I have a healthy number available now. I'll send one to >Matthew, and if there are other lists of COLUGers waiting, let >me know. > > Phil > pjensen@google.com > > Phil, If you have any invites left I would like one as well, I think the gmail storm hit while some of us were on vacation. Thanks for offering up invites to use CoLuggers. Thanks again, Brian Morgan From bruce at nerdjournal.com Mon Jun 28 14:05:56 2004 From: bruce at nerdjournal.com (Bruce Obenour) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:44 2005 Subject: [COLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: References: <09FD61D8173F8A449503AC8D56F0E2432E39CF@be-02.gahanna.gov> Message-ID: <40E05E04.3050509@nerdjournal.com> Phil Jensen wrote: > On Mon, 28 Jun 2004, Matthew Bond wrote: > > >>It seems I missed the GMAIL boat while I was on vacation last week, but >>if someone would keep me in mind when they get more invites it would be >>much appreciated. > > > > I still lurk on this list, although I moved to CA 47 months ago. > It took me a while to get set up to send out Gmail invitations, > but I have a healthy number available now. I'll send one to > Matthew, and if there are other lists of COLUGers waiting, let > me know. > > Phil > pjensen@google.com All the people who contacted me, might want to contact as I'm still waiting for more invites. Thanks Bruce From chris.fuhrman at tfcci.com Mon Jun 28 14:21:18 2004 From: chris.fuhrman at tfcci.com (Chris Fuhrman) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:44 2005 Subject: [COLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: References: <09FD61D8173F8A449503AC8D56F0E2432E39CF@be-02.gahanna.gov> Message-ID: <1088446878.25946.30.camel@icestorm.tfcc.com> I haven't had a chance to catch up on my mail in a while. If you have any available, I'd like one :) On Mon, 2004-06-28 at 12:53, Phil Jensen wrote: > On Mon, 28 Jun 2004, Matthew Bond wrote: > > > It seems I missed the GMAIL boat while I was on vacation last week, but > > if someone would keep me in mind when they get more invites it would be > > much appreciated. > > > I still lurk on this list, although I moved to CA 47 months ago. > It took me a while to get set up to send out Gmail invitations, > but I have a healthy number available now. I'll send one to > Matthew, and if there are other lists of COLUGers waiting, let > me know. > > Phil > pjensen@google.com > _______________________________________________ > colug mailing list > colug@colug.net > http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug -- Chris Fuhrman | Twenty First Century Communications chris.fuhrman@tfcci.com | Senior Software Engineer (W) 614-442-1215 x271 | (F) 614-442-5662 | PGP/GPG Public Key Available on Request From muriuki.1 at osu.edu Mon Jun 28 15:10:36 2004 From: muriuki.1 at osu.edu (Wamae Muriuki) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:44 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Re: GMail invites In-Reply-To: <200406281600.i5SG04PZ002468@stones.wcbe.org> References: <200406281600.i5SG04PZ002468@stones.wcbe.org> Message-ID: <1088449836.3351.1.camel@linux> I wouldn't mind one ! Wamae Muriuki (muriuki.1@osu.edu) From darnold at crouchingcrab.net Mon Jun 28 16:15:36 2004 From: darnold at crouchingcrab.net (Derek Arnold) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:45 2005 Subject: [COLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: References: <40DC8879.6030303@nerdjournal.com> Message-ID: <40E07C68.8010106@crouchingcrab.net> Would you happen to have any more? -Derek From darnold at crouchingcrab.net Mon Jun 28 16:16:08 2004 From: darnold at crouchingcrab.net (Derek Arnold) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:45 2005 Subject: [COLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: References: <40DC8879.6030303@nerdjournal.com> <40DCEC7C.9070101@ameritech.net> <2ee98d2804062520337ee385c0@mail.gmail.com> <40DCEFE4.3060702@ameritech.net> <2ee98d2804062520507c19bc6b@mail.gmail.com> <40DDBE20.30001@salientsystems.com> Message-ID: <40E07C88.1060601@crouchingcrab.net> Robert Jewell wrote: > sorry, i'm fresh out. I've got a to-invite-gmail.txt file, and you're > in it.. if i get more. :) > > On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 14:19:12 -0400, Robert S. Jones > wrote: > >>I haven't posted in several years, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like >>an invite...if there's still one lying around. >> >>Rob > > _______________________________________________ > colug mailing list > colug@colug.net > http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug my fault....disregard that last e-mail. -Derek From hurley at cis.ohio-state.edu Mon Jun 28 17:15:46 2004 From: hurley at cis.ohio-state.edu (Nick Hurley) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:45 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Re: GMail invites In-Reply-To: <1088449836.3351.1.camel@linux> References: <200406281600.i5SG04PZ002468@stones.wcbe.org> <1088449836.3351.1.camel@linux> Message-ID: Hrm... anyone willing to help a poor grad student out with a gmail invite? (If anyone still has any left, that is.) -- Peace, Nick A voice crackles in Calvin's radio: "Enemy fighters at two o'clock!" "Roger. What should I do until then?" From don at penguinsoftwareworks.com Mon Jun 28 18:52:42 2004 From: don at penguinsoftwareworks.com (Don Dufresne) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:45 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Looking for an experienced Linux consultant In-Reply-To: <20040628131949.6150.qmail@webmail07.mesa1.secureserver.net> References: <20040628131949.6150.qmail@webmail07.mesa1.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <200406281852.42847.don@penguinsoftwareworks.com> You sent it to the list instead of his email address... On Monday 28 June 2004 09:19 am, dean@dufresneit.com wrote: > Todd, > ? > I am an IT Consultant, I have provided Linux solutions for some time now.? > If you would like, we could talk about what you need, and if my company is > a match for your project. > > Thanks, > Wm. Dean Dufresne > > Dufresne IT Consulting > We Make Your Computer Problems Go Away > > Cell:(614)886-7640 > Fax:(614)343-1492 > > www.dufresneit.com > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [COLUG] Looking for an experienced Linux consultant > From: "Todd Whittaker" > Date: Fri, June 25, 2004 8:33 am > To: colug@colug.net > > Hello list members, > > I've just subscribed because I'm looking for an experienced Linux > consultant in the Columbus area. ?Web searches have identified a few > people, but word of mouth is usually a bit better. > > I've got a short term project involving the setup and documentation of 4 or > 5 Linux servers with some remote access software and emulation software. > ?Having done some of this myself, I'm estimating perhaps 2 weeks work. > ?Anybody know of a good consultant? > > Thanks, -- _______________________________ Don Dufresne Partner, Sales and Marketing The Penguin Software Works, Ltd., 614-457-2624 http://penguinsoftwareworks.com "We are the ones to watch...." From sfgroups at sbcglobal.net Mon Jun 28 19:15:40 2004 From: sfgroups at sbcglobal.net (sundaram) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:45 2005 Subject: [COLUG] old mailing list Archives In-Reply-To: <200406281852.42847.don@penguinsoftwareworks.com> Message-ID: <000701c45d65$d423e9e0$6400a8c0@sundaram> Hi, Colug site I see only two month mailing list archives, where can find Old mailing list archives. Thanks Sundaram From robb at bossleyfamily.com Mon Jun 28 16:56:28 2004 From: robb at bossleyfamily.com (Robb Bossley) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:45 2005 Subject: [COLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: References: <09FD61D8173F8A449503AC8D56F0E2432E39CF@be-02.gahanna.gov> Message-ID: <20040628205628.6ce3ee9e@Samuel.bigbobs.org> Phil, Could you spare yet one more for a poor Linux-addicted soul? Thank you. Robb Bossley robb@bossleyfamily.com On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:53:31 -0700 (PDT) Phil Jensen wrote: > On Mon, 28 Jun 2004, Matthew Bond wrote: > > > It seems I missed the GMAIL boat while I was on vacation last week, but > > if someone would keep me in mind when they get more invites it would be > > much appreciated. > > > I still lurk on this list, although I moved to CA 47 months ago. > It took me a while to get set up to send out Gmail invitations, > but I have a healthy number available now. I'll send one to > Matthew, and if there are other lists of COLUGers waiting, let > me know. > > Phil > pjensen@google.com > _______________________________________________ > colug mailing list > colug@colug.net > http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug From sjs at khadrin.com Mon Jun 28 23:35:35 2004 From: sjs at khadrin.com (Stephen J. Smith) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:45 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Re: Sharing a kernel In-Reply-To: <4081.24.123.50.150.1086789809.squirrel@24.123.50.150> References: <1086789365.22310.10.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> <4081.24.123.50.150.1086789809.squirrel@24.123.50.150> Message-ID: <1088480135.22354.12.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 10:03, Josh Glover wrote: > Quoth Stephen J. Smith: > why not use the same kernel on SuSE and Fedora? They are > both running on the same hardware, after all. Hey Josh. How do you propose to share modules? Mount the same partion on /lib/modules in each? Hrm, when does the kernel load modules? Would it be after partitions listed in /etc/fstab have been mounted? -- Stephen J. Smith | sjs@khadrin.com | http://khadrin.com/ From herrold at owlriver.com Tue Jun 29 00:26:54 2004 From: herrold at owlriver.com (R P Herrold) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:45 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Re: colug] Cloning Linux systems? In-Reply-To: <40DA0EAC.1070702@skippy.net> References: <20040623224620.24659.qmail@web51806.mail.yahoo.com> <40DA0EAC.1070702@skippy.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jun 2004, Scott Merrill wrote: > peter kukla wrote: > > What is the best way to clone a new Linux system, and > > I'm _guessing_ (due to zero experience with it, yet) that rsync may be > an option to consider for propogating the changes from your dev server > to the production server. I do so all the time: http://www.owlriver.com/tips/rsync-cookbook/ > > maintain the changes to the system over time? backups and systematic management. -- R P Herrold From dmaxwell at columbus.rr.com Tue Jun 29 00:40:31 2004 From: dmaxwell at columbus.rr.com (Dave Maxwell) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:45 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Where did my rtc go? Message-ID: <200406290040.31688.dmaxwell@columbus.rr.com> Last weekend I added an external USB sound device. In the process, I let alsaconfig walk all over my module configurations. This is the only configuration change I've made recently. I was doing this for an Atari 2600 emulator I've been using (mplayer likes this too): echo 8192 > /proc/sys/dev/rtc/max-user-freq Up until last week, this worked. When I try it now I get: Amelia-Bedelia:/home/dmaxwell# echo 8192 > /proc/sys/dev/rtc/max-user-freq bash: /proc/sys/dev/rtc/max-user-freq: No such file or directory I never had to do this before; it doesn't work either: Amelia-Bedelia:/home/dmaxwell# modprobe rtc FATAL: Error inserting rtc (/lib/modules/2.6.6-2-686-smp/kernel/drivers/char/rtc.ko): No such device It seems a whole raft of stuff is missing from /proc/sys/dev: Amelia-Bedelia:/home/dmaxwell# ls /proc/sys/dev/ cdrom parport scsi The contents of /proc/interrupts is interesting: Amelia-Bedelia:/home/dmaxwell# cat /proc/interrupts CPU0 0: 430253 IO-APIC-edge timer 1: 1653 IO-APIC-edge i8042 14: 10518 IO-APIC-edge ide0 15: 44 IO-APIC-edge ide1 16: 29428 IO-APIC-level nvidia 18: 33 IO-APIC-level advansys, SiS SI7012 19: 89 IO-APIC-level eth0 20: 4749 IO-APIC-level acpi, ohci_hcd 21: 30 IO-APIC-level ohci_hcd 23: 0 IO-APIC-level ehci_hcd NMI: 0 LOC: 430123 ERR: 0 MIS: 0 irqs 2-13 are missing. I believe the rtc should live on 8. However this still works: Amelia-Bedelia:/home/dmaxwell# hwclock --show Tue Jun 29 00:40:13 2004 -0.486851 seconds Ideas? Dave -- And now for something completely different. From tom.terry at gmail.com Tue Jun 29 06:15:33 2004 From: tom.terry at gmail.com (Thomas Terry) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:45 2005 Subject: [COLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: <20040628205628.6ce3ee9e@Samuel.bigbobs.org> References: <09FD61D8173F8A449503AC8D56F0E2432E39CF@be-02.gahanna.gov> <20040628205628.6ce3ee9e@Samuel.bigbobs.org> Message-ID: I feel like such a carpetbagger...I bought mine on eBay yesterday for $1.90...hah... On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 20:56:28 +0000, Robb Bossley wrote: > > Phil, > > Could you spare yet one more for a poor Linux-addicted soul? > > Thank you. > > Robb Bossley > robb@bossleyfamily.com > > On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:53:31 -0700 (PDT) > Phil Jensen wrote: > > > On Mon, 28 Jun 2004, Matthew Bond wrote: > > > > > It seems I missed the GMAIL boat while I was on vacation last week, but > > > if someone would keep me in mind when they get more invites it would be > > > much appreciated. > > > > > > I still lurk on this list, although I moved to CA 47 months ago. > > It took me a while to get set up to send out Gmail invitations, > > but I have a healthy number available now. I'll send one to > > Matthew, and if there are other lists of COLUGers waiting, let > > me know. > > > > Phil > > pjensen@google.com > > _______________________________________________ > > colug mailing list > > colug@colug.net > > http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug > _______________________________________________ > colug mailing list > colug@colug.net > http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug > From dollzerr at iwaynet.net Tue Jun 29 06:39:39 2004 From: dollzerr at iwaynet.net (Jess Balint) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:45 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Re: Sharing a kernel In-Reply-To: <1088480135.22354.12.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> References: <1086789365.22310.10.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> <4081.24.123.50.150.1086789809.squirrel@24.123.50.150> <1088480135.22354.12.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> Message-ID: <40E146EB.3030801@iwaynet.net> Stephen J. Smith wrote: > On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 10:03, Josh Glover wrote: > >>Quoth Stephen J. Smith: >>why not use the same kernel on SuSE and Fedora? They are >>both running on the same hardware, after all. > > > Hey Josh. How do you propose to share modules? Mount the same partion > on /lib/modules in each? Interesting thought. Could would with ease. I guess I missed the start of this thread. > Hrm, when does the kernel load modules? Would it be after partitions > listed in /etc/fstab have been mounted? Yeah, the modules are probably loaded after filesystems have been mounted. The exception to this is init ramdisk, where the modules are stored in an image and mounted to bootstrap the mounting of the root partition. This is used if you using a fs or scsi or something and don't compile the module into the kernel. The kernel cannot mount the root partition until it has that module, so it loads the ramdisk, loads the module, then mounts the root partition. ~ Jess From colug at jmglov.net Tue Jun 29 07:41:30 2004 From: colug at jmglov.net (Josh Glover) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:45 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Re: Sharing a kernel In-Reply-To: <1088480135.22354.12.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> References: <1086789365.22310.10.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> <4081.24.123.50.150.1086789809.squirrel@24.123.50.150> <1088480135.22354.12.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> Message-ID: <20040629114130.GB30980%jmglov@jmglov.net> Quoth Stephen J. Smith (Mon 2004-06-28 11:35:35PM -0400): > On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 10:03, Josh Glover wrote: > > > why not use the same kernel on SuSE and Fedora? They are > > both running on the same hardware, after all. > > Hey Josh. How do you propose to share modules? Mount the same partion > on /lib/modules in each? > > Hrm, when does the kernel load modules? Would it be after partitions > listed in /etc/fstab have been mounted? Nope, it must load at least the filesystem modules *before* /etc/fstab is considered. The best way to handle this would be simply to mount the same partition on /usr/src/linux in each and run a 'make modules_install' on each. -- Josh Glover Gentoo Developer (http://dev.gentoo.org/~jmglov/) Tokyo Linux Users Group Listmaster (http://www.tlug.jp/) GPG keyID 0xDE8A3103 (C3E4 FA9E 1E07 BBDB 6D8B 07AB 2BF1 67A1 DE8A 3103) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys DE8A3103 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.colug.net/pipermail/colug/attachments/20040629/401225d4/attachment.bin From blitz at post891.org Tue Jun 29 07:54:21 2004 From: blitz at post891.org (Patrick Blitz) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:45 2005 Subject: [COLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: <09FD61D8173F8A449503AC8D56F0E2432E39CF@be-02.gahanna.gov> References: <09FD61D8173F8A449503AC8D56F0E2432E39CF@be-02.gahanna.gov> Message-ID: <1088510061.5401.5.camel@amon> Hey, even a poor german want's to join that boat. Does anybody have any invitations to spare? thanks a lot, guys. Patrick On Mon, 2004-06-28 at 18:38, Matthew Bond wrote: > It seems I missed the GMAIL boat while I was on vacation last week, but > if someone would keep me in mind when they get more invites it would be > much appreciated. > > -----Original Message----- > From: colug-bounces@colug.net [mailto:colug-bounces@colug.net] On Behalf > Of Robert Jewell > Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2004 6:18 AM > To: Central OH Linux User Group > Subject: Re: [COLUG] GMail invites > > sorry, i'm fresh out. I've got a to-invite-gmail.txt file, and you're > in it.. if i get more. :) > > On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 14:19:12 -0400, Robert S. Jones > wrote: > > > > I haven't posted in several years, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't > like > > an invite...if there's still one lying around. > > > > Rob > _______________________________________________ > colug mailing list > colug@colug.net > http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug > > _______________________________________________ > colug mailing list > colug@colug.net > http://www.colug.net/mailman/listinfo/colug From rkward at yahoo.com Tue Jun 29 12:44:35 2004 From: rkward at yahoo.com (Keith Ward) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:45 2005 Subject: [COLUG] SCO and the Battle Over UNIX: A Clear Explanation Message-ID: <20040629164435.52214.qmail@web10708.mail.yahoo.com> There has already been enough said about this but this article is a good compilation of the whole ordeal. http://www.informit.com/articles/printerfriendly.asp?p=175171 From bnmille at myrealbox.com Tue Jun 29 19:48:20 2004 From: bnmille at myrealbox.com (Brian Miller) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:45 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Central Ohio Novell User's Group Message-ID: <200406291948.20593.bnmille@myrealbox.com> At the end of the last meeting, I mentioned that a group of people were trying to get a Novell User's Group going (again--the last CONUG meeting was about 2 years ago). The first official meeting will be July 28, 2004 at 6:30pm. This is, unfortunately, the same day as our next COLUG meeting. I was hoping to get some people, with an interest in Novell/NetWare, to attend this initial meeting, so that we could persuade the rest of the group to schedule future meetings on a day/time that would not conflict with future COLUG meetings. The meeting will be held at the Fishel Company, located at 1810 Arlingate Drive in Columbus. This office is located north of Trabue Ave. between N. Wilson Rd. and I-270, on the west side. I've never been there myself, but MapQuest seems to do a good job. Continuing in the fine tradition of previous CONUG meetings, I'm told pizza will be served (just in time for dinner). Any and all with an interest in Novell software, and especially with an interest to get the new group scheduled to a time that won't conflict with COLUG, are invited. From sjs at khadrin.com Tue Jun 29 21:58:32 2004 From: sjs at khadrin.com (Stephen J. Smith) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:45 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Re: Sharing a kernel In-Reply-To: <40E146EB.3030801@iwaynet.net> References: <1086789365.22310.10.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> <4081.24.123.50.150.1086789809.squirrel@24.123.50.150> <1088480135.22354.12.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> <40E146EB.3030801@iwaynet.net> Message-ID: <1088560712.24562.36.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> On Tue, 2004-06-29 at 06:39, Jess Balint wrote: > Stephen J. Smith wrote: > > How do you propose to share modules? Mount the same partion > > on /lib/modules in each? > > Interesting thought. Could would with ease. I did some playing with Knoppix on my laptop this evening. I resized some partitions to make room for new /boot and /lib/modules partitions, and copied the data over from my Fedora Core 2, SuSE 9.0, and Debian Sarge installs. I added entries in fstab instructing each distro to mount my new partitions. I also had to fix up the grub config file. Fedora and Debian are working great with a vanilla 2.6.7 kernel I built. Works great for me so far! > I guess I missed the start > of this thread. It's an old thread which was last active on June 09. I have not had the time to try Josh's idea until recently. Next I am planning to find out how well Fedora and Debian play together when sharing /home. -- Stephen J. Smith | sjs@khadrin.com | http://khadrin.com/ From sjs at khadrin.com Tue Jun 29 22:07:50 2004 From: sjs at khadrin.com (Stephen J. Smith) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:45 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Re: Sharing a kernel In-Reply-To: <20040629114130.GB30980%jmglov@jmglov.net> References: <1086789365.22310.10.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> <4081.24.123.50.150.1086789809.squirrel@24.123.50.150> <1088480135.22354.12.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> <20040629114130.GB30980%jmglov@jmglov.net> Message-ID: <1088561269.24562.47.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> On Tue, 2004-06-29 at 07:41, Josh Glover wrote: > Quoth Stephen J. Smith (Mon 2004-06-28 11:35:35PM -0400): > > Hrm, when does the kernel load modules? Would it be after partitions > > listed in /etc/fstab have been mounted? > > Nope, it must load at least the filesystem modules *before* /etc/fstab > is considered. I think the driver for the root filesystem is generally either built in to the kernel, or is part of the initrd image and is loaded from there. When exactly any given module is loaded is still a mystery to me. I have tried sharing /lib/modules now, and I haven't noticed any problems _yet_. YMMV of course. > The best way to handle this would be simply to mount the same partition > on /usr/src/linux in each and run a 'make modules_install' on each. That would definitely work, and it doesn't require much disk space (~50M). But it doesn't seem like it should be necessary. -- Stephen J. Smith | sjs@khadrin.com | http://khadrin.com/ From dmaxwell at columbus.rr.com Tue Jun 29 22:23:45 2004 From: dmaxwell at columbus.rr.com (Dave Maxwell) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:45 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Where did my rtc go? SOLVED In-Reply-To: <200406290040.31688.dmaxwell@columbus.rr.com> References: <200406290040.31688.dmaxwell@columbus.rr.com> Message-ID: <200406292223.46104.dmaxwell@columbus.rr.com> On Tuesday 29 June 2004 12:40 am, Dave Maxwell wrote: > Last weekend I added an external USB sound device. In the process, I let > alsaconfig walk all over my module configurations. This is the only > configuration change I've made recently. > > I was doing this for an Atari 2600 emulator I've been using (mplayer likes > this too): > > echo 8192 > /proc/sys/dev/rtc/max-user-freq > > Up until last week, this worked. When I try it now I get: > > Amelia-Bedelia:/home/dmaxwell# echo 8192 > /proc/sys/dev/rtc/max-user-freq > bash: /proc/sys/dev/rtc/max-user-freq: No such file or directory I found it. The modprobe scripts are loading something called the "generic RTC" driver. Apparently, this simulates RTC functioning when there is no hardware rtc. I did a rmmod genrtc and then a modprobe rtc and it worked. Now I just have to find where this idiotic thing is loading the bogus driver. Dave -- Guillotine, n.: A French chopping center. From colug at jmglov.net Wed Jun 30 07:01:30 2004 From: colug at jmglov.net (Josh Glover) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:46 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Re: Sharing a kernel In-Reply-To: <1088561269.24562.47.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> References: <1086789365.22310.10.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> <4081.24.123.50.150.1086789809.squirrel@24.123.50.150> <1088480135.22354.12.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> <20040629114130.GB30980%jmglov@jmglov.net> <1088561269.24562.47.camel@cobra.khadrin.com> Message-ID: <20040630110130.GC6141%jmglov@jmglov.net> Quoth Stephen J. Smith (Tue 2004-06-29 10:07:50PM -0400): > On Tue, 2004-06-29 at 07:41, Josh Glover wrote: > > > Quoth Stephen J. Smith (Mon 2004-06-28 11:35:35PM -0400): > > > > > Hrm, when does the kernel load modules? Would it be after partitions > > > listed in /etc/fstab have been mounted? > > > > Nope, it must load at least the filesystem modules *before* /etc/fstab > > is considered. > > I think the driver for the root filesystem is generally either built in > to the kernel, or is part of the initrd image and is loaded from there. > When exactly any given module is loaded is still a mystery to me. I > have tried sharing /lib/modules now, and I haven't noticed any problems > _yet_. YMMV of course. Right, most people build their root filesystem driver into the kernel to *avoid* initrd. :) As long as your /lib/modules parition is the same type of filesystem as your root one, the above will work. When a module is loaded depends on which kernel you are running (e.g. 2.4.x or 2.6.x) and whether you have module autoloading turned on. With module autoloading, the kernel loads only the modules in your modules.conf (or modules.autoload, in a *real* distro) at startup. These modules are loaded *before* /etc/fstab is considered, so that necessary filesystem driver modules are there for mounting the partitions listed in /etc/fstab. (Do a little test if you don't believe me: put a smbfs mount in your /etc/fstab and make sure smbfs support is compiled as a module.) In your case, if /lib/modules is not mounted when the kernel loads modules.conf, there is going to be trouble. How much trouble? In 2.6.x kernels, where lazy module loading has been virtually perfected, very little. 2.6.x will load modules on demand to deal with filesystem mounts, hotplugged hardware, module dependencies, etc. So, failing to load modules that are listed in modules.conf will just create some spew in /var/log/messages, but as soon as you mount /lib/modules, the kernel will be fine. In 2.4.x kernels, you are probably going to have a bit more trouble. How much, I know not. But why would anyone want to run a 2.4.x kernel anymore? ;) (Don't answer that, I know of at least three reasons: don't fix what ain't broken, my hardware is only supported under 2.4.x, my software is only supported under 2.4.x). The bottom line is, Steven, if this is working for you, more power. The Unix sysadmin in me cringes at /lib/modules being on a different file- system than /. Rob Funk, what think ye? In any case, bully on you Steven, for having the hutzpah to try this. :) Cheers, Josh -- Josh Glover Gentoo Developer (http://dev.gentoo.org/~jmglov/) Tokyo Linux Users Group Listmaster (http://www.tlug.jp/) GPG keyID 0xDE8A3103 (C3E4 FA9E 1E07 BBDB 6D8B 07AB 2BF1 67A1 DE8A 3103) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys DE8A3103 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.colug.net/pipermail/colug/attachments/20040630/248100ad/attachment.bin From tom at functionalmedia.com Sun Jun 27 19:17:58 2004 From: tom at functionalmedia.com (tom hanlon) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:46 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Re: June meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3A3A8824-C890-11D8-A619-00039317745E@functionalmedia.com> On Friday, June 25, 2004, at 11:59 PM, Jim Wildman wrote: > On Fri, 25 Jun 2004, tom hanlon wrote: > >> Come to think of it can we put my whole life into CVS so I can roll >> back to my last working configuration ?? > > so your life is stable enough to commit? And make dep;make world;make > install actually works???? Wow. Things are NOT getting any more stable so I figured I would commit now and see if I can get one good install out of this mess :-) Tom From jep200404 at columbus.rr.com Wed Jun 30 18:41:21 2004 From: jep200404 at columbus.rr.com (Jim) Date: Sat Jan 8 01:35:46 2005 Subject: [COLUG] Geeks and Ducks Message-ID: <20040630184121.421eafc6.jep200404@columbus.rr.com> http://www.colug.net/~jep/images/20040626-colug-at-ocsea